Switching
Speaker: SheDragon
September, 1997

Arturo_: Lets go ahead and get the discussion started..Your attentions please..

Arturo_: Welcome one and all to the continuing series in discussions about BDSM and power exchange relationships. This week we'll get a better understanding of the philosophical emotional and practical aspects of Switch relationships, from someone who embraces both the Dominant and submissive aspects of her nature.

Arturo_: Thank you SheDragon for graciously accepting our invitation to speak tonight.. we are all looking forward to hear you experiences and opinions.

Arturo_: Please hold your questions untill the end of the discussio and enter a "!" for a comment and a "?" for a question. You will be regestered in a queue and called upon when its your turn..

Arturo_: Smiling..

Arturo_: With out further adieu... I give you SheDragon.

SheDragon: Hello everyone

SheDragon: I'll be cutting and pasting what I have written

SheDragon: I've been trying to think of a simple way to explain how I feel to be a switch. I thought about buttons, the kind you find with your partner to drive them wild with lust. Well, in my case the buttons connect to a switch like a train track. Depending on which buttons are pushed my switch changes from the submissive track to the Dominant one.

SheDragon: Other ways to look at it: I want to wear someone's collar and belong to that person, I also want someone to be owned by me and wear the collar I give them. My bondage fantasies are about being taken captive and taking a captive of my own.

SheDragon: It isnt that I don't feel strongly as one or the other when I am one or the other. I can't separate the feelings enough to say which I prefer. Both are very different. It

SheDragon: also isnt that I can't make up my mind or want to keep all my options open. The Internet gives me a lot of freedom to explore how I think and feel without leaving the comfort of my home.

SheDragon: I have gone through a lot of confusion and thought processing to end up here. All of my experience has come from the Internet: email correspondence and discussion lists, IRC and the femdom and bondage newsgroups. I have always formed my own opinions based on what I see, read and experience. I have been doing the same thing as I explored Dominance and submission.

SheDragon: To be a Dominant is a very strong and powerful feeling. When I Dom I feel charged up with energy. Having a strong male helpless, giving himself to me to do with as I please is also a very big responsibility and I do feel this, even when I'm writing. To submit is a soft and gentle feeling, sometimes childlike. I feel vulnerable, which I don't like 100%. I find I lose some of my ability to say 'no".

SheDragon: I feel more myself when I am neither one. I think of this balanced spot as the switch, my centre. As a sub I used brattiness to keep from going too far from my balanced centre. As a Domme I use the responsibility to see to the safety of the submissive to let through my gentler side. In this way I keep both the Domme and the submissive sides from straying too far from who I am, or who I see myself as being.

SheDragon: I don't think I could straight sub or Dom. That would be cutting off a side of myself. I have heard some people say they switch to balance their Dom or their sub selves. I don't feel this way. I am balanced without either role. To choose sides lets me explore more of my self.

SheDragon: I am doing more of that at the moment. Each new relationship on line makes me look at myself in a different way. I started as a Domme, afraid of the power I held. I met a man who wanted to be Dommed. He told me about spreader bars and spankings and other delights I had not heard of. I liked the feeling of Domination. He was the wrong person for me to learn with. Though I did get my feet wet.

SheDragon: Next, I met the people on the #submission channel and I saw submissives who were not quiet and obediant to the point of being non-people. I liked what I saw so I tried it. I joined an email group and found a Dom on IRC. My IRC Dom liked my creativity so much he wanted more of it in another way. I began to Domme him. It was a confusing time for me. I found I enjoyed Domming. I had not really discovered how much fun I could have bef

SheDragon: I met a male sub through the bondage personals on usenet. Life was great and I was happy and keeping him happy too. But then the urge to submit crept back in. There were nights when I hungered to be Dominated to give up my control. That is where I am now.

SheDragon: Except for one more relationship, a new one. Another personals ad, this time on a regular newsgroup. He -was- vanilla. Now I am taking him along on my explorations and having a chance to look at my decisions and opinions through new eyes.

SheDragon: That is all I wrote.

darl takes all of this in....and thinks.

ErotikDom: interesting, SheDragon

TheKttN: we think SheDragon is very lagged.

danceCat hugs darl tite and is glad she is here

darl smiles at danceCat...and ver y glad to be here too.....this is giving her much to think about

Arturo_: Thank you so much SheDragon..

Arturo_: That was wonderful..

SheDragon: lol This is just the kind of night I would get. Full of ups and downs and the unexpected :)

SheDragon: thank you ErotikDom :)

darl: I agree Arturo.....

TheKttN: GA LH'sJanie

SheDragon: He shecousin and MasterMars :)

SheDragon: WElcome :)

LH`sJanie: thanks

Arturo_: we are now opening up the disussion for questions and comments..

darl: SheDragon...it is the net after all....full of ups and downs...*smiling

ErotikDom: there are times when a Top feels desires...to experience what one gives to the other. I have done so r/l...the hard part was falling in love with that person..wanting to please..then loosing your identity

ErotikDom: power exchanges in r/l can be complicated also....both wanting to Top or bottom at same time...there has to be an understanding right at the beginning how that will work

darl: ErotikDom...loosing identity in what way?

ErotikDom: darl: if one is in love with your partner you may find that you no longer wish to switch but to submit exclusively

darl: ErotikDom...is that so wrong though?....for a subbie??

ErotikDom: not at all, darl....but one has to be aware that it can happen

{lady_K} is a Top/Bottom in r/l... having a female submissive has been very pleasurable... and allows me to be more submissive to my Dom.. and not try to Top from the Bottom as often

darl: ErotikDom...I am aware...*smiling*.....it's hard to guard against it....in order to avoid the emotional pain.

shedevyl smiles to SheDragon

LH`sJanie: SheDragon.....I just wanted to know..are you speaking from the experience of cyber (IRC/usegroup/email) relatinships, or Real life relationships?

SheDragon: Not real life yet LH'sJanie

SheDragon: I may take a trip to England soon though :)

LH`sJanie: thank you, SheDragon..I found it very enlightening

Elektra^: I'm not trying to be casuistic... rather been thinking about it a lot

Elektra^: What constitutes on-line relationship? can you define it?

TheKttN: Elektra can you repeat your question?

Elektra^: What constitutes on-line relationship? can you define it?

SheDragon: Is that for me Elektra or anyone here?

Elektra^: for you SD :)

SheDragon: ok :)

SheDragon: Hard one

Elektra^: I mean when casual chat becomes a relationship?

SheDragon: for me its when I want more than casual chat. When I want to really know the person I am talking to

SheDragon: and I am willing to tell them all the things we hide from most people

Elektra^: isn't it easier to tell things to someone we don't know? like on airplane?

SheDragon: not so different from off line. But I think an on line relationship can only go so far, at least for me.

SheDragon: yes But to really want to tell someone to trust them to understand and want their good opinion all at the same time is different than someone on a plane that you will never see again

ren{LdyH}: SheDragon? if you ever move your experiences into r/l...have you considered what you might do...if you met 'that special someone' who *didn't* switch?

venicia: I algee with SheDragon and wonder if the stakes get even higher when it is a r/l relationship on all levels

SheDragon: ren My current relationship is with someone who does not Dom or sub or switch

SheDragon: I am introducing him to my feelings about D/s

SheDragon: I was lucky that he liked what I had to say

SheDragon: I dont really know where he will find his niche or if he will at all

venicia: I would say you are very lucky indeed, SHeDragon :)

Elektra^: I guess the heart of my question is whether on-line relationship can survive on its own or must be followed by r/l one?

ren{LdyH}: i mean, SheDragon...someone who *is* a Dom/me...or a submissive...could you ever feel comfortable choosing?

LH`sJanie: depends on the needs of the parties involved, I would think, Elektra

SheDragon: thanks :)

SheDragon: I feel it has to have more Elektra. I know I want more

LordHonor agrees with his slave

{lady_K}: there are some people who go years with just online and are very happy with just that

Elektra^: that's what I feel too

SheDragon: ren: It would be difficult. I like to share all of myself with the people I choose to care about

ren{LdyH} smiles...nods...thank you, SheDragon...

danceCat agrees with shedragon

SheDragon: In that situation I would be holding back

SheDragon: welcome ren :)

LordHonor: 'k

venicia: May I ask a question ?

TheKttN: GA venicia please do

SheDragon: I think Im caught up venicia

venicia: Iam in a r/l relationship, engaged actually. It started out with me sub and him Dom.

venicia: And now he has expressed a desire to switch at least occasionally.

venicia: I am very nervous about my potential "performance" as a Domme, I have the feelings but I just don't know how to go about it, "find the head space" so to speak.

venicia: Suggestions, ideas..........

SheDragon: congratulations venicia :)

venicia: Thanks............. *grin*

Elektra^: ?

SheDragon: start by looking for a style of Domming you can work with

SheDragon: I am a Governess to my male sub

venicia: So, I want to and he would like for me to.......but I just can't seem to figure out how to go about it. Silly, I know but each time I get the thought I loose my nerve or get too caught up in the details.

venicia: Hmmmm.......that may work.

SheDragon: it is more like playing with a naughty boy

SheDragon: than topping or bottoming

SheDragon: he enjoys light humiliation and I like bondage

SheDragon: maybe just try one thing

SheDragon: like just tie him by one hand to the chair for an hour and leave it at that or have him ask you for permission each time he wants to leave the room for any reason

SheDragon: start with easy things

venicia: Good idea.......helps set the head space for both of us, right?

SheDragon: yes

SheDragon: dont think you have to be a Domme in one night

venicia: Can you tell I've always been the classic overachiever *grin* ?

SheDragon: :)

danceCat absently strokes darls hair

Arturo_: Are there any more questions?

venicia: You suggestions make a great deal of sence, I knew that the announcement of this discussion was more than a bit fortuitous :)

venicia: Well, I have lots but I don't want to monopalize the conversation

darl strokes danceCat's chest absentmindedly as I listen to the discussion

Elektra^: This is a general question to everyone as I'm a novice in all this :))

SheDragon: glad if I have helped :)

SheDragon: GA Elektra

Elektra^: I feel quite comfortable Domming men.... up to a certain point, hmmmm.. more sexual the scene becomes

Elektra^: more I feel a man shuld take the initiative

Elektra^: I have the same pattern in r/l. Am I a switch?

SheDragon: maybe you want a different kind of man to Domme

Elektra^: hhmmm like what?

SheDragon: I have found I don't get the same charge from Domming men who want to be feminized or who think I should be worshipped. For me they are not 'strong' enough or I guess not as much of a challenge

Elektra^: right to the point!!!

SheDragon: a case of 'its not my kink'

Elektra^: however.... is it possible to switch during the scene? in the middle of it? On line, I mean, not in r/l

danceCat: i have

danceCat: in rl

danceCat: and online

Elektra^: I did cpl times and.... dunno if I did right thing......

Elektra^: mean I'm supposed to be a Domme and all that....... :))

TheKttN: GA danceCat

SheDragon: I have done it with my male sub

S heDragon: not without warning though

SheDragon: I tell him Im in the mood for either

SheDragon: it can work out but not if someone is left behind

SheDragon: you have to learn by trying things

SheDragon: I really like IRC for that

SheDragon: A Domme isnt a machine

Elektra^: hhmmm, I thought I was only one doing that..... kinda weird...... Thanx SD :))

danceCat: one day ... i had just been collared online... about an hr later i turned around and collared someone else...

venicia: Do you not find the sudden change in headspace tough?

SheDragon: no problem Elektra :)

Elektra^: someone else doesn't count. I'm taliking about switching roles in the middle of a scene

danceCat: well i have done that too..

Elektra^: dunno, venicia... I found I cannot get.... off during the scene me being Dominant all the way....

danceCat: venicia ,.. not so far.. i have wondered whether i was 'really' into the right headspace or not

Elektra^: A man just got to be a man at some point......

venicia: That would be my prob, the sub head space is vey natural for me but the Domme space takes a good deal of work.

shedevyl laughs

venicia: I agree with you Elektra (or at least I think I will once I get my nerve up)

TheKttN: i think we should open this to an open discussion now till SheDragon catches up with the lag:)

Elektra^: the point is, as a scene starts... I cannot take someones orders and be submissive...

venicia: Ok,...........

Arturo_: Good idea Kttn

Arturo_: the queue takes a holiday

Elektra^: but more it progresses more i feel the man should be the man... :)

venicia: Elektra, what are you like (persona) in real life, at work for instance ?

Elektra^: hhhmmm.... an executive type?.... :))

venicia: I ask because you say a gpod may things, I have thought

venicia: Me also, I run a small company with several staff and make decisions all day, the authority is mine so to speak.

Elektra^: but basically I'm a valley girl :)))) regardless how many ppl report to me :)))

venicia: But privately I have always felt sub

Elektra^: CA valley girl, yanno

venicia: Strangley now I am finding it very difficult to transfer my work persona to the bedroom

Elektra^: well I don't. I can't take orders

Elektra^: but a sexual.... scene progresses....... I'm more and more willing.....

shedevyl: venicia: perhaps after you fell in love with your Dom and he revealed he was a switch....Domming became a form of submission to please Him, so it is does not feel natural.

venicia: CORRECT FOR 100 POINTS !!!!

SheDragon: I used to be very shy and I had to develop 'fake' confidence. I take that with me wherever I go now. Work or play

venicia: *grin* sorry to be so exuberent

SheDragon: Have you told him you arent sure about Domming him?

Elektra^: Story of my life, SD.... I worked and worked to overcome my shyness (in r/l)

SheDragon smiles at Elektra

venicia: Yes, he is fully aware that I am not comfortable with it

Elektra^: Guess it's not 'fake' anymore.... became real yanno

venicia: and he tells me not to worry that it will come "naturally" eventually

SheDragon: yes it has, lucky for me. I would have curled up under a rock if I kept going the way I was

SheDragon: it might not venicia

venicia: that he has seen me at work and that Domme is a portion of my personality

SheDragon: I dont think you should 'make' yourself a Domme. It should be fun

Elektra^ smiles at SheDragon.... guess a lot in common between us

danceCat agrees with shedragon again...

Arturo_ rises and wishes everyone a terriffic evening.. need to be on my way.

venicia: Privately, I agree with you, to some extent. I do enjoy short periods of being Domme

danceCat: the first time my pal dommed me . she ke\pt doing what i askedher to

SheDragon: night Arturo, hello to sasha :)

Arturo_: thanks so much SheDragon..

venicia: Good nigh Arturo

danceCat: i said tie me up , she tied me up, etc... andwe wondered,, who was really being dommed??

shedevyl: I would think it is rather hard for a "lifestyle" submissive to try to switch, since it puts the relationship on a more 'sesson' and 'scene' basis, even if she can find it in herself to do it.

Arturo_: you were great

venicia: But it is not part of my soul the way submission is/

SheDragon: thanks Arturo :)

Arturo_: good night friends

venicia: We are not "lifestye" folks this forms only a portion of our sex life

sassysub waves g'nite....SheDragon..thank-you very much for sharing your time, thoughts and experiences...you are very much appreciated :)

venicia: hello rif

rif: hi venicia :)

rif: am I too late ?

SheDragon: Hi rif

rif: hello SheDragon *smiles*

shedevyl thanks SheDragon for her interesting and informative talk. Gotta run.

sweet_red has a comment/observation :)

Elektra^ is very greatful to SD

Elektra^: very good presentation

rif is late getting home, and just received the topic email..I am sorry I missed this, as a switch I was a might intersted :)

venicia: Yes, immensely helpful........ all of you

rif: evenin Elektra

SheDragon: GA sweet red

SheDragon: thanks :)

danceCat: i have a question

sweet_red: the comment earlier about the "type" of man to dominate...for me....i have been interested in switching...but the only time i was aroused by it was with a Dom that i knew

sweet_red: i have a hard time with men that are already submissive

Elektra^: hello rif

sweet_red: so....i guess for me....i would have to find a Dominant man to try switching on :)

sweet_red: the end...thank you :)

SheDragon: or a male switch red

danceCat: in the case i gave... i ws being topped.. but at my behest.. and direction .. who was the true sub.. in that scene?

sweet_red: hmmmmm...perhaps...never thought about that...since i dont know any :)

venicia: I would say the other person was, danceCat

danceCat: hmmm.. perhaps...

SheDragon: you were giving feedback Cat

SheDragon: how can 2 people work together without it

danceCat: as our relationship progressed , she became more dominant in our play.. and lesss willing to sub

sweet_red waves...thank you SheDragon.....very informative :)

SheDragon: welcome red :)

sweet_red: thanks everyone else....night :)

rif: I think when switches are together, the lines are blurred a bitmore, but the core essence, the trust and comunication, they are as clear as in any well defined D/s relationship :)

danceCat: yesssss!!

danceCat: thats the damn key..

danceCat: not who is sub or dom

rif: and I echo sweet-red's comment..my only desire to Dom has been directed to Dominate partners :)

danceCat: at least for me

venicia: I think that may be true if it is known from the beginng that both are switch but if it comes up later in the relationship when the :"roles" are defined ..........it can be very troublesome

venicia: not to mention confusing.

SheDragon: yes venicia it is very confusing to have your Dom turn to you for Domming LOL

SheDragon: But I learned a lot

rif: yes venicia, but like in all other aspects of life, we're not perfect, nor clairvoyant (at least I am not *chuckles*)

danceCat: that happened with my 1stdomme

danceCat: i took her collar cause i wanted to be dommed

danceCat: she waslookingfor a domme herself1

danceCat: 1st time we talked on the phone she egged me into putting her in subspace

venicia: Yes, I agree with all of you and I do love him regradless but this is quite a wrinkle in a perviously de finned relationship

SheDragon: me too Cat!

SheDragon: He changed on me

rif: well...don;t forget, communication, applies in wrinkly times as well as good times *smiles*

SheDragon: I think you should do what you feel comfortable with venicia

SheDragon: remember when you Domme he is in the back seat

danceCat: yeah??

SheDragon: he can give feedback but you set the pace

danceCat: well sd .... it was verrry confusingfor me .. .she was my 1st domme

SheDragon: my first too Cat

danceCat: and i didnt know what _ to do

SheDragon: my first time subbing

danceCat: and there were other problems.. we only lasted about a month

venicia: He he my first Dom too and that may be why I am having so much difficulty with the switch

danceCat: i think she finally found a dom ofher own

venicia: And yes, rif........communication is what makes or break any relationship

SheDragon: I still Domme him once in awhile on line

SheDragon: but I never sub for him anymore

rif: but, it's the most esily forgotten thing, by the best of us :)

Jotto: Good evening, all. (Hyperbole has just rested on my arm.) Is it lag or is it Clariol?

danceCat: well i hafta go.. it was very good....

danceCat: byeeee alll

danceCat: /me gently removes darl from his lap and rises to leave

SheDragon: night Jotto

SheDragon: night Cat :)

danceCat even

venicia: Well, I have to run..............this has been one of the better discussions I have had "on-line". I would like to thank all of you especially She Dragon

rif: night dancecat :)

venicia: Goodnight danceCat

rif: nite venicia :)

danceCat: me too,, thanx evryone !!

SheDragon: Im going to head out soon too. I had a great time. Im really glad I was interesting to listen to :)

SheDragon: night venicia :) thanks

rif: I really am sorry I missed this SheDragon

SheDragon: Kttn might have it logged

rif: hey great :)

rif: hello Kttn :)))

rif: may I inquire, do You indeed have a log? :)

TheKttN hugs SheDragon. This was excellent!

SheDragon: Welcome and thanks Kttn. :)

SheDragon hugs Kttn

TheKttN: yes rif and it will be posted on the website most likely tomorrow

rif thanks Kttn :)))

SheDragon: Good night everyone. Thanks for coming