Q&A With The Author of "Screw The Roses, Send Me The Thorns"
Speaker: Molly Devon
July 19, 1998

*** Topic for #submission_discuss set by Raven^ on Sunday, July 19, 1998 5:36:31 PM

CatsKitN would like to welcome everyone tonight and we'd like to go over some rules right now if we may. Our speaker tonight is Molly Devon and we'll be having a que set up. We ask that if You have questions (later, give me a few minutes here folks) that you msg me and I'll speak with You in private.

<CatsKitN> again, please limit Yourself to one question so that other may have the opportunity to ask as well.

<CatsKitN> as most of you saw Molly was running a little late, we have that from time to time so we ask for Your patience as we get the final details ironed out please be thinking of any quesions You have for her and when we ask You to msg me, i'll talk to you in pvate an ask you to type your question out ahead of time. thank you all for your interest tonight and without further bull from me...i'd like to introduce Molly

<mollyd> Ok some of you know me

<mollyd> I wrote a book with Philip Miller called Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns

<mollyd> the first printing was in 1995 .. we are now on the seventh printing

<mollyd> Philip was my master beginning in 1991, together we worked 3 years on the book, which is basically a how-to of bdsm

<mollyd> Philip died november 1996 and i've continued publishing by myself since then

<mollyd> I'm primarily a bottom though I sometimes top to do demos .. and i'm here tonight to answer what questions about bdsm .. or the leather scene that I can

<mollyd> please type a ? to ask a question and kittn will call on you in turn

<mollyd> thank you

<CatsKitN> katmandu, go ahead

<katmandu> My question is: Molly, do you have a web page or somewhere where your other publications are listed? I love Screw the Roses and would like to read more

<mollyd> no questions?

<mollyd> ok .. i guess that means you are all expert on all bdsm related issues :)

<mollyd> i do have a web site .. it is at Palace.com

<mollyd> http//palace.com/rose/mystic1

<mollyd> done

<katmandu> thank you

<CatsKitN> ok R_ go ahead

<R_> What are the best three personality traits for a Dom to have?

<R_> I dont mean to put you on the spot. I just want to know what you think is most important.

<mollyd> ok.. next question was:

<mollyd> what is the best three traits for a dom to have

<mollyd> empathy, intelligence, and honesty

<mollyd> those would be my picks

<mollyd> Bdsm is based on trust and communication

<mollyd> the personal qualities that create at atmosphere where the sub can trust the dom are essemntial

<mollyd> any idiot can learn to use a flogger

<mollyd> but it takes someone with real understanding to know when and how far to take a submissive

<mollyd> done

<R_> :> danke schon. I wish to be a better Dom someday and will keep those three words in mind.

<CatsKitN> Laz, You're next then Raven

<Laz> Molly did you find writing about this lifestyle has helped you in anyway?

<mollyd> ok I was asked if writing about the lifestyle has helped me

<mollyd> and the answer is of course yes

<Laz> Could you expand upon that?

<mollyd> in order to write one must try to understand not only one owns motivations

<mollyd> but those of the people around you

<mollyd> though Philip at time complained that analyzing in order to write was "killing" the mystery

<mollyd> it was very useful

<mollyd> done

<CatsKitN> RAven, You're next followed by Yy`

<Raven^> I will ask 2 questions, one will be my own and the other is an email that I received from a person that couldn't make it to the discussion but felt that Molly would be able to help him.

<Raven^> First, what inspired you to write the book? your qualifications, and was it difficult securing a publisher?

<mollyd> ok .. a three part question ... why did we write it .. what are my qualifications

<mollyd> and how hard was it to get published

<mollyd> first ... we wrote the book .. because back when we started working on it

<mollyd> there was almost no literature outside the gay community

<mollyd> and even there .. wasn't much

<mollyd> sm101 and Different loving, and many of the others you know of

<mollyd> came into being after we had already started writing

<mollyd> both Philip and I had an art background

<mollyd> i had a master of fine arts in painting, Philip had a bachelers in sculpture

<mollyd> so we thought that we could do an illustrated book

<mollyd> I also have a degree in sociology

<mollyd> Philip had many years experience as a dom

<mollyd> and since we were both out in the leather scene .. we had some excellent teachers

<mollyd> we self-published

<mollyd> mostly for artistic reasons

<mollyd> done

<Raven^> this is an email that was received by me in the middle of the week from a gentleman that couldn't make it

<Raven^> I am going to quote

<Raven^> Although my wife has long shown signs of having a fundamentally submissive nature, I have not been able to bring her around to even consider incorporating D/s in any structured way into our sexual relationship (nevermind TPE).

<Raven^> She is turned off by D/s's negative moral impressions--says it seems "dirty" or "ugly" to her. This despite the fact that she has, in moments of great tenderness and passion, said that she "wants to be my fuckin' whore" or "wants to really know how dirty it can get."

<Raven^> I feel sure enough in my own Dom nature not to have to force the issue. I think that dominating her in a more formal way wouldn't be worth it if she didn't ask for it. I'd rather not go outside my marriage to satisfy my need for sexual dominance. What advice do you have on how to get her to realize how important this is for me while circumventing her wall of moral indignation? How to help her see that this is just what she's wanted all along?

<mollyd> a person can be "seem" submissive by nature, but this has nothing to do with bdsm

<mollyd> and if we take the stand that any kink or sexual orientaion is ok

<mollyd> then lack of interest in these things must be ok as well

<mollyd> she has as much right to her vanilla desires as you have to your need for dominance

<mollyd> more right if she was not told about your sexual tastes before marriage

<mollyd> but .. that doesn't resolve your dilemma

<mollyd> if you want to convert someone .. you have to suduce .. not force

<mollyd> you have to go very very slowly so as not to scare her

<mollyd> and always find things that are in it for her

<mollyd> in otherwards .. to get .. you have to give a lot

<mollyd> you have to blend and element of submission from her with terrific erotic technique

<mollyd> done

<Yy`> Do you find that there are generalizations sometimes applied to submissives annoying or do you find they have some element of truth. ( such as, indecisiveness, low self esteem, emotionally needy)

<mollyd> actually .. i find them absolutely almost opposite from the reality

<mollyd> the best submissive I know are very self-actualized people

<mollyd> while those needy and insecure people do find their way into the scene

<mollyd> they are a very small minority

<mollyd> its takes a very gutsy person to send naked in front of a bullwhip

<mollyd> not a weak person

<mollyd> done

<Chaosmstr> in reference to Ravens thing... I worked for 3 years to get my wife interested.. and now, she can't get enough. :> and my question:

<Chaosmstr> have you become involved with anyone else since Philip passed on?

<mollyd> I have played a few times .. I have made some new friends

<mollyd> I have not gotton into a relationship

<mollyd> nor have a i really submitted.. I bottomed only

<mollyd> Philip will be a hard if not impossible act to follow

<mollyd> done

<^susanne^> do you have any advice for new subs in this lifestyle?

<mollyd> the best advice I was given new into the scne was this

<mollyd> if it isn't fun , don't do it

<mollyd> be slow to get involved

<mollyd> being collared is a serious commitment .. not unlike marriage

<mollyd> would you get married having never dated?

<mollyd> get involved with the community and find another sub to mentor you

<mollyd> a dom claiming to want to mentor you .. mayt just want submission without commitmenmt

<mollyd> beware of the predators who go for new subs .. like vultures on a fresh kill

<mollyd> done

<posesd{TZ> Molly my question is this..what was the most rewarding thing for you about writing Screw the Roses ...?

<mollyd> many many things

<mollyd> I've gotton letters from people telling me that i was an important influence on them

<mollyd> one of the perks innitially was doing demos with Philip

<mollyd> which I loved

<mollyd> there was exhibitionist in both of us :)

<mollyd> and Screw the Roses is now helping to support me

<mollyd> done

<posesd{TZ> thank you

<natasha-> Mine is a two part question

<natasha-> Part 1. What are some of the most important safety issues for new players and veterans as well to be aware of...

<natasha-> Part 2. Do you feel from your experience that though we are told over and over to respect all kinks that there is some types of play to dangerous for even very experienced Doms and subs such as asphixsiation play for example

<mollyd> basically the physical safety aspects are covered much better than the psychological aspects

<mollyd> tho .. there are some activities .. that i can't imagine ever to be safe

<mollyd> such as jugular taps .. and bone breaking

<mollyd> the dangers of bondage are generally underrated

<mollyd> most of the permanate damage in the scene that I know of are nerve damage caused by bondage

<mollyd> a coroners photographer told me that most of the sm related deaths they see are from autobondage

<mollyd> I think grownups have to honestly access the risks

<mollyd> then make considered desisions

<mollyd> if both people know breath control is risky

<mollyd> and choose to do it anyway .. well life is not riskfree

<mollyd> done

<Erotik{w}> mollyd: your thoughts about switching...and the problems encountered <g>

<mollyd> switching works fine for many people

<mollyd> retaliation can be a problem

<mollyd> most people know better than that though

<mollyd> my only real objection is dishonest communication

<mollyd> there was one "top" who told me that he was 99% top

<mollyd> but spent much of are session trying to get me to top him

<mollyd> he kept telling me .. that if he made a mistake I was free to do back to him that which he had done to me

<mollyd> after he told me this about the 10th time I got the message

<mollyd> that I had better top him.. or he might do something stupid on purpose

<mollyd> so I gave him what he wanted with a sigh

<mollyd> and of course I never wanted to see him again

<mollyd> done

<linda_JM> Hi molly

<mollyd> hi :)

<linda_JM> my questions is what is the most effective way to find other lifestylers in D/s .... i am a collared sub who wants a sister lover

<mollyd> depands where you are

<mollyd> get involved with the community

<mollyd> go to parties and events

mollyd: cyber if thats the only avenue because you live in like bumfuck iowa

mollyd: but you know even iowa has munchs and groups now

mollyd: Florida is easy

mollyd: active scene there

mollyd: done

lvs2btied: Molly, you say empathy is one of the most important traits for a Dom/Domme. Do you think every Dom/Domme should have been a sub at least once?

mollyd: I don't think every dom must sub

mollyd: some dominant personality can't really give up mental control on that level

mollyd: i do think all tops can bottom .. physically

mollyd: and they should

mollyd: when Philip went to Connie to learn how to cane

mollyd: she included giving him a caning as part of the needed education

mollyd: in the days of old leather .. leather had to be earned

mollyd: done

lvs2btied: Thank you mollyd.

anima`: mollyd: thank you so much for writing Screw the Roses - I want you to know that it means a great deal to me that you have. My question is more a bit about grief, and grief in bdsm. My husband died some time ago, and I was wondering if you ever see yourself getting deeply involved with someone else? And do you find that bdsm creates bonds that are deeper than vanilla relationships, or no? And I'd be very interested on any resources

mollyd: I think D/s makes relationships more intense

mollyd: and the grief one feels at losing a partner is deep

mollyd: I may someday meet someone else I suppose .. but i'm still grieving for Philip after 20 months

anima` nods. I understand.

mollyd: i'm seeing a therapist and taking antidepressants

mollyd: done

bella{SM}: i am a r/l sub, for many years, yet i met someone who I knew wasn't in the D/s scene, i gently mentioned it to him and he seemed very interested, but for some reason, it backfired to the point of a breakup and talk of what a terrible person I was. I never pushed him into it, I just suggested to Him my interest and I honestly believe that after a period of time, he didnt like the fact that I knew more about D/s than he. Any suggestions when you meet someone in real life not into the D/s scene? I ask this because it actually gave me a bad taste after this encounter and I almost gave up D/s..i now have someone I am dating..I dont want to make the same mistake again

bella{SM}: sorry long..hi molly :)

mollyd: actually .. its unfortunately not an uncommon experience

mollyd: many so called "vanilla" people have the same fantasies we have

mollyd: but in trying to act them out run smack into their own negative feeling

mollyd: and also some insecure tops are intimadated by a submissive who knows more than they do

mollyd: you basically had bad luck in meeting such a person..

mollyd: better luck next time is all I can wish for you

mollyd: though honestly

bella{SM}: thank you molly :) you were absolutely right, he was insecure with himself

mollyd: most of my negative experiences have been from people not part of the leather community

mollyd: who play privately

mollyd: but really are clueless

mollyd: so i no longer play with anyone who isn't "out"

mollyd: done

bella{SM}: thank you :)

mollyd: you are welcome

soraya: Molly :) I have occasionally heard Dominants speak of submissives no longer 'needing' the lifestyle after a number of years or no longer 'needing' a Master. I find it hard to understand how someone 'grows out of' a part of what completes them. Have you observed any trend among submissives with a significant number of years involvement in the scene that would back up this suggestion of 'dropping out of the lifestyle as it were ?

mollyd: Philip used to tell me the only thing constant about life was change

mollyd: i'm kinda jungian in Philosophy

mollyd: I believe all of these roles are in us

mollyd: and we have needs to play them out .. sometimes for our who;e life

mollyd: sometimes during only one period of life

mollyd: go with the flow .. is all I can suggest

mollyd: i myself do not have the burning need to submit I once had

mollyd: because of losing Philip

mollyd: it may return .. it may not.. <shrug> I will follow my gut

mollyd: done

sora ya: of course......

soraya: thank you :)

MasterPau: Question is relative to markings...permanent or semiperminent...do you have any sugguestions on where to have a permanent tattoo done that will not involve the actually peircing of the skin .. do to health reasons .??

mollyd: the easiest places to tatoo is over well-padded areas

mollyd: i'm told shoulders and butts are amoung the least damaging

mollyd: but tattoo is always making very tiny holes with a needle and inserting ink

mollyd: most people can have tatoos without damage .. i'd have to know more about what kind of health problem

mollyd: done

CatsKitN: Yy, You may go now..

MasterPau: Thus my question is there a method of marking that doesn't involve making holes with needles??

mollyd: all marking comes from scarring

mollyd: cutting, tattoos and burning are three ways to make scars

mollyd: don't know anyway to make a scar without damage

mollyd: done

MasterPau: thanks

Yy`: this is from something u stated earlier ..........but what are jugular taps?

mollyd: ok a jugular tap is cutting into the jugular vein of the neck to get blood

Yy`: thank u

mollyd: i don't know more because .. basically its pretty insane

mollyd: done

Yy`: sounds it

mollyd: <nod>

sassy-IP: molly, first of all, thank-you for doing this discussion for the online community and it's a pleasure to talk to you again *smile* what suggestions or advice do you have to give to someone who is new to this lifestyle and will be attending a very well organized bdsm party for the first time?

mollyd: first .. relax :)

sassy-IP tries that *grin*

mollyd: know that .. you are not expected to play

mollyd: that noone has the right to touch you in anyway

mollyd: without your consent

sassy-IP: *nod*

mollyd: basically .. go there with the idea of hanging out and making friends

mollyd: and only if you feel comfortable do you need to do more than that :)

sassy-IP: and remember that y'all are ppl to, huh *nervous laugh*

mollyd: done

sassy-IP: thank-you :)

anima`: OK...two parter...first from last question: And I'd be very interested on any resources you have for the psychological dangers of bdsm beyond what STR has to offer?, and finally, do you have any future plans you'd care to share with us re more books? (smile)

cucalegal: alguem do brasil?

mollyd: lots of good resources

mollyd: Greenery press has many good books ..

mollyd: my book might be helpful .. <plug>

mollyd: there are FAQs all over the net

anima` notes molly's book was MORE than helpful it was definitive. (g)

mollyd: The ethical slut is one book i'd suggest

mollyd: one more little hint for new subs

mollyd: I had an answer for those tops who tried to push me into submitting

mollyd: I used to tell them that my Master forbid me to submitt to assholes <grin>

sinfulsub: :)

mollyd: as to other books .. well got some things i'm working on.. but far from finished

mollyd: thank you

mollyd: done

TM`sKttN: i have a question on mentors and trainers. i see them online a lot. do you find a purpose for this kind of relationship? if this makes sense. Thanks for being here too:)

TM`sKttN: or do you find them to take advantage of the situation and submissive

mollyd: i'm sceptical about many of the "mentors" and trainers

mollyd: many are men trying to skim off new subs

mollyd: again wanting total submission without a commitmment in return

mollyd: a sub should get another sub as mentor

mollyd: a dom should find a dom to mentor

mollyd: done

IronFist-: my question:I have speaking with a sub for a while and it is apparent she is more kowledgeable about the lifestlye than myself,(not a problem)...we have discussed our like and dislikes...my problem is she enjoys activities that I am not capable of performing...what would you suggest I do?

mollyd: even doms have limits

mollyd: they can decide to streach those limits if they choose

mollyd: when I told Philip I wanted him to pierce me

mollyd: he did over a month of research

mollyd: and even then.. got someone else to do my nipples

mollyd: while he did my hood because its an easier peircing for one unexperienced

mollyd: so basically .. its up to you .. where you want to try to go

mollyd: done

IronFist-: thanks

mollyd: does that help?

IronFist-: uhhhh, I am not sure

CatsKitN: I'm just curious as to what if anything about D/s has surprised You the most about yourself?

mollyd: I'm always surprised at how much I like

mollyd: i've added so many things to my repretrare that I thought impossible when I started

mollyd: I started with .. ummm well I don't like pain.. but bondage sounds like fun

mollyd: things grew

mollyd: done

CatsKitN grins

Raven^: there are no more questions after this, we will open the floor for open discussion. Molly Thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to honor us with your presence and answer questions, it is indeed a great service

mollyd: I hope I was helpful

Raven^: you give to the SM community.

mollyd: these are just my opinions folks :)

lawana: thanks mollyd :)

mollyd: thank you for inviting me .. it was a pleasure

natasha-: Thank you Molly

natasha-: it was a pleasure

sinfulsub: Thanks mollyd:)

katmandu: Molly:thank you for all the info

CatsKitN: i'd like to thank everyone who attended tonight and for everyones cooperation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Gene`: thank you mollyd, soft just gave me your book on fathers day and I am enjoying it very much

^Jaz^: Thank you mollyd for your time and also thank you Raven for organizing this evening!!!!!!

{sherry}H: Thank You molly!

Yy`: molly thank u

mollyd: thanks Raven and Kttn :)

CatsKitN: thanks again Molly!

mollyd: and thank the x-files for being in rerun :)

CatsKitN: ROFL

TM`sKttN: thank you so much Molly:)

natasha-: Molly I found it very interesting what you aid about the desire to submit since the loss of your Master

natasha-: I think many submissives might face those feelings just as wives chose not to marry again, and more so

CatsKitN waves good night..and again..thank you all for coming tonight!!!!

Raven^: KitN thank you

Raven^ smiles

natasha-: opps

katmandu: I agree, natasha

natasha-: I meant to send it private

mollyd: actually .. i'll share this

natasha-: but i do think that the depth and interdepence often found in a master/submissive relatioship and the time it takes

mollyd: my therapist thinks its part of depression

mollyd: like loss of sex drive.. it could return

natasha-: to achieve that cadence might be daunting

natasha-: I think that coming out of a relationship that is so intnese so focused on each other is as difficult as the rode to get there

mollyd: yes

Raven^: good night everyone

mollyd: good night folks .. thanks again

Gene`: good night mollyd

wyld_imp: thanks molly :) g'night :)

natasha-: gdnight molly

*** mollyd has left channel #submission_discuss

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