Q&A With John Warren
Author of "The Loving Dominant"
http://www.diversified--services.com
July 30, 2000

fireNdark is assuming that Mr. Warren needs no fancy introduction (admits to being slightly starstruck)....Please welcome the author of "The Loving Dominant"
chynarose politely applauds
JohnWarren: Thank you. How would you like to run this?
sarcasm^: Welcome John Warren
fireNdark: I'm keeping notes of the ? and !'s Sir...I'll call em for you.
corin{C9}: oh there He is lol
fireNdark: can I go first?? *laugh*
JohnWarren: that's fine with me.. you call 'em I'll answer 'em
fireNdark starts typing it out...
KttN: sure fNd, then you can add to the queue

fireNdark: Anne Rice and the Beauty series....what's your take on it being used as a "teaching tool"??
JohnWarren: "shudder" It's a hot piece of fiction, but in real life it would leave a lot of dead subs.

nudette{T: May I ask how many fiction books you have written also?
JohnWarren: I've written three... two of which I'm proud of {grin} The Torquemada Killer and Murder at Roissy
nudette{T: ty Sir
JohnWarren: Safe Sane Consensual and Fun is part fiction and part instructional
lilwolf: okay...lots a dead an killin so far
corin{C9}: what about Screw the Roses as a learning Tool?
JohnWarren: lil, well the two are murder mysteries
lilwolf nods
JohnWarren: Screw the Roses is an excellent book. Molly and I are good friends
JohnWarren: BDSM authors, by and large, are a tight knit group

sasha: I have heard some people say that love in a D/s relationship interferes with absolute slavery that some submissives crave what is your take on that statement and why?
JohnWarren: I've seen a lot of BDSM relationships, with and without love, but in most cases the "no love" group aren't all that long lasting
JohnWarren: It seems to go contrary to a need in humanity itself
JohnWarren: In any case, what we really do is consensual, regardless of how we dress it up and that requires that each gets the needs met

MzP``: Mr. Warren.. what is your take on *contracts* in a live-in D/s relationship and what things do you suggest?
JohnWarren: I find the "making" of the contract is the important thing. It should force the couple or group to consider many eventualities and resolve them before they happen. As for living it afterwards, that's OK or not as the people want.
JohnWarren: The main thing is a contract should not be a wank tool, but a serious exploration of what is needed and desired on the part of both parties
JohnWarren: Too many published contract are just masturbation or fantasy fodder.

^treasure: Sir, in your experience, what is the singlemost important emotional reason that a Dom/Master desires a sub? What needs does it fulfill?
JohnWarren: There are as many answers to that as there are doms and masters. Each person is looking for his or her needs and there isn't all that clear a communality.

JohnWarren: I've been told people what to know where to donate to the Paddleboro fund. I believe their page www.paddleboro.com is up now
fireNdark: thank you

falNAngel: Do you think it's healthy to take a break from D/s...and remain in the relationship? And if so, do people often take "breaks" from the lifestyle?
JohnWarren: I don't know it is possible to take a break from one's desires. Some stop various activities. I've never felt the needs. However, I do strongly feel that people IN a relationship have to take time often to "meet on a level field" since roles can get in the way of communications.
falNAngel: thank you :)

fireNdark: treasure...you had another ? or !
^treasure: yes please
^treasure: Then what are the primary responsibilities of Dom/es to their subs?
JohnWarren: That depends on the needs of the submissive. Some submissives need to have fantasies acted out. Others need support. Others need specific stimulation. Whatever is the most important thing to the submissive has to be communicated clearly to the dominant, although
JohnWarren: Most relationship fail when the "most importants" are a close match.

Amberston: I am very interested in BDSM... I suppose I am "vanilla"... I have read alot of lit. etc. and I find it "dreamy" I have talked to a Dom in another country and he wants to come here to meet me... he is even mailing me a collar with my name on it..now I am scared and am thinking of having my number changed. There is nowhere around here that has a place for me to meet people interested in this..Q: What is your thoughts on subs meeting Doms online?
JohnWarren: I'm not sure where you are, but I'll assure you there are LOTS of munches and groups around the country JohnWarren: Libby and I met on line, but I'm leery of that method since it is so easy to deceive in this medium
JohnWarren: People meet where they will meet and there are successes and failures in all media

AlleyKitN: is it wrong for a submissive to hold back on certain acts as hard limits in a training situation but know that in a life partner situation they would not be a hard limit?
JohnWarren: Well, one has to define "hard limit." Naturally in what is planned for a long term relationship some things would seem reasonable that wouldn't be so in a shorter one
JohnWarren: I'm thinking of a cartoon where a sailor has women's names up and down his arm... each crossed off and the tattoo guy is adding another.
AlleyKitN: so...you're not cheating yourself or your trainer to hold different standards in a training situation vs life partner.
JohnWarren: I'm reluctant even to use the word "trainer" There is very little that a submissive can learn that is transferable
across relationship. I find that dominants are much more in need of training as what they need to know is more transferrable.
AlleyKitN: Can I beg to differ, Sir?
JohnWarren: I recall one submissive who had been "trained" to be absolutely silent during play since her dom wanted that. When they broke up she learned that this was unattractive to many dominants.
JohnWarren: and she had to unlearn it.
AlleyKitN: from a submissive stand point that is..I find there is alot I am learning.
JohnWarren: and how transferrable is that between partners?
JohnWarren: We "learn" things constant ly. But training is something that should be generalizable.
AlleyKitN: well..for me..it's been learning things about myself...certain type's of play..mentally working thru situations and new though processes...
AlleyKitN: and these are very transferable skills
AlleyKitN: imho of course
JohnWarren: I tend to tell people I "show them experiences and their themselves" not I train them.
AlleyKitN: nodding...well taken Sir
AlleyKitN steps back and quits hogging
fireNdark chuckles
JohnWarren: no it was a good point, Alley, and I appreciate the chance to clarify.
JohnWarren: It's a sore point with me because many "trainers" are just people who want bodies to play with without giving in return.
AlleyKitN: I am most lucky in that regards Sir...

JanetM: John, earlier you said "Most relationship fail when the "most importants" are a close match" -- I'm wondering if I'm not understand, or if there was a typo. It seems to me that relationships are more likely to fail when the "most importants" are *not* a close match, but I may be missing something.
JohnWarren: fat fingers here... yes, they are most likely to fail when there is a MISMATCH
JanetM: Thanks!
fireNdark: :)
JohnWarren: That's why reporters are TRAINED to write "innocent" rather than "not guilty"

Arrgh2: Relationships thrive on insecurity, if a relationship is too secure it will die. A relationship where one is simply taking and not giving will probably also eventually fail.
JohnWarren: I don't know. Most of my most successful relationships, intimate or not, are built on security and dependablity. It may mean that one can predict one will be surprised, but the security is there and the relationships have been successful.
JohnWarren: I did have one partner who was into terror, but that was unusual.
Arrgh2: well, I was just quoting something I read of an article I read. I don't know if it is true or not.

^beloved^: I've seen many more relationships die due to the heightened insecurity of one partner than I have when there is a solid security for both partners.
JohnWarren: Security is particularly important in relationship like Libby and mine where we are both actively poly.
^beloved^ nods emphatically
JohnWarren: Jealously is usually built on the fear of loss.

fireNdark: Mr. Warren, in recent years it seems this whole realm of BDSM has "come out of the closet"...it's everywhere. Do you think it's here to stay or just a computerized/HBO faze?
JohnWarren: I'm hoping it will become open. In fact from the media coverage I'm wondering of Paddleboro isn't going to be our Stonewall
fireNdark: could be Sir.

sasha: I agree with the statement that security is imperative in a relationship if it is to grow in D/s especially if there is BDSM Play how frightening to not be secure when your tied up and helpless.
JohnWarren: Yes, the "frighening" part of BDSM play for those who like that is like a rollercoaster. It is the thrill of fear in the middle of security.
sasha: secure that you are safe and in the hands of someone you can trust with your life
Arrgh2: oh, well I don't know about dom/sub relationships, I was just talking about normal friendship types of relationships..
JohnWarren: I'd hate to think I couldn't feel secure with my vanilla friends. I've had some of them for four decades.
Arrgh2: bdsm is here, even though we may not acknowledge it. It's prevelant in the cooperate world.
JohnWarren: Arrgh, I used to be a corporate vice president and I selected my intimates on how secure I was with them and they with me.

fireNdark: Kahonez Sir......GA please.
Kahonez: Mr Warren, can you go back to your thoughts regarding the Dominant having to learn from the submissive...if we think about it, isn't the D also submitting his/herself to the whole relationship? .
JohnWarren: Yes, what we so is not as clearcut as a cartoon. It is more a dance where two (or more) people move, reacting to each other, to create something for both Kahonez: thank you
JohnWarren: Doms do sometimes short change themselves in an effort to be a "good dom" I tell people "doms have safewords too".

fireNdark: falNAngel.......GA please
falNAngel: well i've read quite a few books recently...and from what i've been reading it seems as though many D/s relationships are centered in the bedroom...and don't continue that type of 'role' or relatinship in other aspects of their life...Do you feel that a couple can have that type of relationship in most parts of their life and be succesful ?
JohnWarren: I've seen everything from "stay at home, play at home, bedroom only" to "puppies." Their success or failure seems to be related to the needs and desires of the people involved and not to what could be seen as a degree of involvement.
falNAngel: thank you

Dargath: Mr Warren, I joined a few mins ago, so I may have missed something very interesting to me, u consider better for a new Dom to be trained by a sub, or another Dom? or a combination of the two (more people involved?)
JohnWarren: Dargath, one learns from people who know more. The orientation is unimportant. My first partners were an experienced lesbian couple and they taught me a lot while they submitted to me .

fireNdark: sasha....I believe you had a ! or ?
sasha: Arturo told me earlier on that he also surrenders surrenders to my needs and to life we all have to surrender to life at times like it or not I think there is a fairytale conception with many online explores that dominants are infallible, almost like Gods that is a terrible pressure to put on a person what is your take on that Mr. Warren?
JohnWarren: [laughing] that is a great point. Doms are people too with needs and failings. As I said it is a dance and sometimes even the best dancer steps on his or her partner's feet
JohnWarren: the big clue is how the dom reacts to discovering that he or she isn't a god
JohnWarren: There is a very serious problem sometimes with "tops disease"
^kira: tops disease?
JohnWarren: to put it indelicatly... the hair in the nose grows in so strongly that one thinks one's shit doen't stink.
^kira laughs
^kira: understood
tapestry howls with laughter
Foord__ chuckles
JohnWarren: seriously, it is when one thinks the role is their person
JohnWarren: This has lead to the t-shirt "You may be a dom. but you aren't MY DOM
fireNdark roars
chynaroz giggles
bratgirl: lol
^beloved^ laughs as she applauds

^beloved^: Mr. Warren, I'd like to know if you are able to share with us what it was that inspired, or drove you to write and publish, especially, The Loving Dominant.
JohnWarren: It was debt... a very special kind of debt. The one I owed to the people who taught me what I know and made me what I am. When one reads the book, they are helping me to repay that debt. when th ey pass on what they have read, they are doing more.
JohnWarren: when I wrote the book, there was nothing in print for hetro people. I wanted to give them a guide.
JohnWarren: Now [grin] we have whole libraries
^beloved^: Thank you, lovely answer and a wonderful publication, you answer shows when one reads the book : )

sasha: Okay but how does that work with people that take Master/slavery relationship to the max whereby the slave has no rights I hear people say that is their lifestyle they sleep on the floor ect ect I am puzzled as to how these extreme relationships work i know people who say they live it but i wonder is it really possible to be robotic in your surrender.
sasha: and what are the long term effects
JohnWarren: I tend to pat them on the head and say "it is nice to have fantasies."
sasha: have you seen it work?
JohnWarren: Not in the long run. We've had a few friends and colleagues experiment with it, but reality usually rears its ugly head.
sasha: smiling my feeling as well but i have seen people who seem to live that extremely.
JohnWarren: It is sexy to take a vacation from creature comforts, but the body revolts after a while.

fireNdark: Dominant1 Sir, please....GA
Dominant1: I have always felt that it is the submissive who is actually in control of the D/s relationship, as without their submission there is no relationship...how do you feel about that Mr. Warren
JohnWarren: I don't think ANYONE is in sole control. As I said before, it is a delicate dance of two bodies, needs, minds. If they match it can be lovely.
Dominant1: Did not mean in sole control but at least in the begining.
JohnWarren: Dont' forget that without a dom there is no relationship either {smile}
Dominant1: Yes
sasha Dominant1: Very true
JohnWarren: I've had a few people who were totally shocked that I didn't want their submission... as if I was some sort of public utility.
Dominant1: Same here

destiny{M: my Master/Husband was trained as a submissive to have a better understanding of how a submissive feels.. i recently had a friend tell me he had "submissive tendencies" (she knows of his training)... do you think that because he enjoys doing things for me that would be considered "submissive tendencies"?
JohnWarren: Don't get too hung up on labels. I do things for people, am I submitting to them. Actually I don't know. All I know is I do what I enjoy and not what I don't.
destiny{M: Thank You, Sir.
JohnWarren: As for "submissive training" for doms. I've seen it result in great doms... and lousy ones. Doesn't seem to be predictable .

sasha: What about people who switch I have always wondered how that works...is the need and desire to submit or dominate compartmentalized for some people or is it more a question of play if you switch rather than lifestyle.
JohnWarren: I've seen all kinds of switching. Libby, for example, can go from submissive to dominant in separate scenes but not the other way. Another couple we play with can switch in mid scene.. makes for interesting play.
JohnWarren: Libby is, by the way, a bi switch so she rarely lacks an opportunity to play.

AlleyKitN: ok..one thing I think I'm hearing is ...learn what works for you and don't let anyone tell you what one thing will or won't work..educate yourself..be you submissive or dominant and BE totally honest with yourself and learn who you are? is that a fair overview? or over simplification?
JohnWarren: BINGO!! Give the lady a cupie doll
Undrtaker: That's my theory as well.
AlleyKitN takes a bow...
chynaroz applauds AlleyKitN :))
Undrtaker: There's nothing worse than someone who recites all the known books but has no opinions of their own.

burningis: good evening Sir, I was curious as to your feelings on depersonalization in a BDSM relationship, using another as furniture or as an animal. What in your experience have you found to be the allure to these forms of play
JohnWarren: I don't really understand that attraction, but I have played with people who have been turned on by that kind of activity. Part of it seems to be a desire to submerge the self... Can't critize that since it seems to be the basis of so many religions (which I don't understand either)
JohnWarren: I should add that "animal" and "furniture" play is quite different. Pony people are often not at all "depersonalized"
burningis: oh? I do not understand the pony aspect very much.
JohnWarren: Pony's can be a lot of fun... they can be "machine like" or very playful. I know one man who dresses as a cat... gets a lot of playful attention from the ladies.
burningis: thank you Sir

MzP``: Just a comment on the switch thing
MzP``: I am a switch.. but only when things are high stress and I need a stress breaker.. I could not switch with my own submissive tho.. just couldn't get into a mindset there
JohnWarren: That kind of switching isn't at all uncommon nor is the lack of desire to switch with someone who play with regualarly in a role
MzP``: as my friend Merlin says.. I'm one who who spend a lot of time on my knees in a corner and nose to the floor.. because I would still try to top
JohnWarren: [evil grin] You can only top someone who lets you.
^beloved^ laughs
JohnWarren: Anyone who doubts that does not live with a cat
fireNdark: Ok folks, lets wrap this discussion up.
falNAngel: hahhahhaha
niki{Ut}: hehehhe
^kira laughs
MzP``: hahahahahahah fireNdark: Mr. Warren, may I be the first to thank you very much and ask that we might "borrow" you again on another night??
niki{Ut}: *laughs*
Foord__: chukles
^beloved^: lolol
burningis lives with a cat and knows!!
MzP`` applauds and thanks Mr. Warren for his time and a great discussion :)
destiny{M: oh yes.. thank You Mr. Warren and please do this again!
bratgirl: damn i have to stop running the shower for that damn cat
AlleyKitN: thank you for your time!
JohnWarren: It would be my pleasure. People can also reach me at mentor@bdsbbs.com or drop by my commercial web page at www.diversified--services.com (yes it does have two hyphens)
burningis: thank you for your time, Sir, it has been an insightful evening
JohnWarren: The web page also has some of my unpublished writings.
nudette{T: Thank you for Your time and experiance Master Warren! i enjoyed you greatly!
tiara{F^}: Sir i am a fairly new submissive and i have really enjoyed this ..ThankYou.
JohnWarren: my pleasure to be here and there were some excellent questions
KttN: thank you Mr. Warren and everyone for some great questions:)
^beloved^: Thank you Mr. Warren for your time and knowledge and the sharing of it with us. ::smile::
JohnWarren: I'll leave now and go soak my hands [grin]
^kira chuckles
KttN: *smile*
^kira: good night John :)
chynaroz thanks Mr.Warren for his insight and comments :)
destiny{M: Be well, Sir.
MzP`` offers finger massages
*** JohnWarren has left channel #Submission_Discuss


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