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The
World of Gor: Part 1 of 2 *** Topic for #submission_discuss: The World of Gor: educating, enlightening, dispelling myth *** Topic for #submission_discuss set by cinnamon^ on Sunday, November 9, 1997 5:44:26 PM TheKttN: we have a few rules, please keep your greets and hugs till after SirDaniel's presentation. When it is time for questions we will do them in QUEUE fireNdark: Let's keep "greets and meets" quiet at this time to give our guest our complete attention Danath grins kimber{D} slips in and hurries over to her Master..kneeling down next to Him quietly kamira-MF: bahni is Master Strummer coming? bahni{STR smiles brightly as kimber and gives her a hug Danath draws his kimber to his lap bahni{STR: He said that He will be here shortly Danath: Get comfy, my lovely slavegirl :) kamira-MF: ohh wonderful :) ali{S-S} reaches up and squeezes kimber's hand happy to see her bahni{STR winks at kamira kimber{D} smiles brightly..and arranges herself for her Master's comfort kamira-MF snuggles and smiles at her gorean family rockme moves across the room and kneels down on a cushion next to Sir Bad^'s chair.... Hardlord takes a sip of wine, and smiles to Wolvorine and cyberfish again in thanks fireNdark: SirDaniel...........I believe the floor is yours kind sir Elronnd wathces the assembled quietly... and waits Bad^ pets the sweet sub. bahni{STR tickles kimber's feet juielle curls at Master Elronnd's feet and listens Hardlord smiles at aph, and sipping again, bends his lips to hers and allows her to drink from her master's mouth John^ gets lost in the spam.. siara gets comfy and watches and waits kiss_met: hope that i can now be heard in channel... kimber{D} laughs at bahni's half collar SirDaniel: fireNdark: Thank you... Malakye settles in rockme smiles ... thank you Sir Danath smiles... Seems a decent part of Gor is here bahni{STR smiles kiss_met: well, it must have worked...not telling me that i can't send to channel...LOL kamira-MF displays her new collar Danath: I can't wait to learn what it's all about! kamira-MF: :) kamira-MF smiles Mastiff chuckles Danath: Myth??? *** Mode change "+m" on #submission_discuss by TheKttN cinnamon^ points to the "No talking while your guest is speaking" sign and points out the nifty private msgs feature that came with everyone's individual chat client SirDaniel: Ladies and Gentlemen.. what we are attempting to do to nite is to shed some light on the "Gorean" myth...that it is any different than any other section of the leather community. SirDaniel: the members of the "Gorean" side of the leather community is the same as any one else involved in the 'scene'.. we do present ourselves different than most.. SirDaniel: we have our customs.. or rules.. and the way that we treat and talk to each other...we are more... ritualistic in what we beleive in..but let me say one thing first.. before any one has a chance to form a sound opion..>:) SirDaniel: we do not beleive for one min .. that there is any place called gor...except in your mind..and in your heart...it is a way of life with most of us...it is how we feel about our selves.. as Masters..Mistress.. and those that are slave..be they male or female... SirDaniel: "WE" and please.. I am not speak ing for any one else but myself...when I say we...we use the "Gor" books by John Norman as a guide line.. not a bible...a guide line to how some of the rituals happen..how a slave is collared..how and when she can be uncollared.. SirDaniel: Try and think of it similiar to "King Arthur's Court.. or the SCA... it is not role playing (it is for IRC) SirDaniel: but IRC is a different topic all together..>:) SirDaniel: OK.. I have been asked to include IRC as well.. SirDaniel: To include ALL of IRC would take all night... there are a great many channels.. and you can find links to some of these on my web page...www.cac-bbs.com/bondage and from there you will find even more... SirDaniel: Bondage.. and BondageII were NEVER meant to be STRICT gorean IRC channels... what we wished to do is to be a melting pot of all the D/s channels..that those that came to the channel learned what D/s was all about...the good.. and the bad..what to watch for .. red flags for a slave.. or Master/Mistress.. as Lord Davon used to tell me alot.. "The Learning Channel" SirDaniel: There are TWO slaves on Gor.. Kajira...female slave Kajirus.. male slave..and in the catagory of slave... there are several different ones there as well. SirDaniel: A pleasure slave: A slave specially taught the arts of pleasure. A true pleasure slave knows the position of a slave, many SirDaniel: And a passion slave..one that is NOT trained...but she /he has been specifically trained for sex... SirDaniel: There are also Free Persons...there are Free Woman: SirDaniel: : Free women are viewed by most Goreans as priceless. Slaves are not used for breeding, except to creat additional slaves. Therefore only a free woman can bear children that create family. If a slave gets pregnant, most would enslave the child.. or sell it... SirDaniel: Free Companion: is the other "person" on gor.. SirDaniel: Free companions are the closest thing to a "wife" that a Gorean has.A contract with another free person, usually of the opposite sex, for a period of one year. If not re-avowed and renewed on it's anniversary, the contract is considered dissolved. Considering the life span of a Gorean is measure in centuries, not years, this is very practical. Free companionship are automatically dissolved if either is enslaved. SirDaniel: We have attempted to collect.. and aplhabatize as much as we can...We have been collecting.. and finding it for a few years...if you would like to know more complete definations they can be found at http://www.cac-bbs.com/bondage/terms.html SirDaniel: What we have tried to do is bring as much of gor to our real day lives as possible....over the last several years I hope that is what LordDavon and I have done with the people that have entered our channel... SirDaniel: Now.. I would like to open it up to question and answers.. not sure if I will have the right answer for you... ZZebb raises his hand. SirDaniel: and if it is one that I do not have.. my e-mail is SirDaniel@blackrose.net if you would like to e-,ail it to me... kamira-MF ducks... Mastiff raises his, too Danath raises his hand...I have a question, Daniel... I thought there was supposed to be a Gorean speaker tonight... is he late? SirDaniel: and I will find the answer and get back to you.. kimber{D} hides TheKttN: please use a ? or ! and we do this in order cinnamon^: Please remember that in answering questions...we will do so in an orderly fashion and follow the queue SirDaniel: LadyKivy.. SirDaniel: LadyKivy..Yes? fireNdark: GA LadyKivy ZZebb sits quietly. cinnamon^: Queue: ZZebb...Mastiff...Danath....LadyKivy...subangel...Whiplash LadyKivy: Gor seems to have an attitude toward slaves that they are property, do you view a slave as property without a mind and soul, or does the idea of self-preservation enter the D/s relationship between a Master and a kajira? Danath sits nice and quiet... hands fonled deep in his property's lap Elronnd sits backand listens quietly watching LadyKivy begs pardon for hitting enter before the que Mastiff: go ahead...answer that one...Ill go next kimber{D} cooes fireNdark: GA Mastiff cinnamon^: (After the answer to LadyKivy's question) Queue: Mastiff...Danath....subangel...Whiplash...RCrop...Elektra lassyALDR watches with great interest Hardlord slides his hands inside aph's kalmak, warming his hands quietly ali{S-S} sighs happily at Master Danath's feet SirDaniel: I want to say before we get to far into this.. SirDaniel: the answers are MINE and may not agree with all of the members that call them selves GOREAN.. similiar to the "Christ ian relegion..>:) SirDaniel: yes..
a slave is property by the very defination.. does she have a mind.. yes..
she chose to be a slave...and I would pray to the Priest Kings that the
Master or Mistress that owns that slave would protect them with their
life.. Malakye sits with his hand raised...quietly cinnamon^: Queue: Mastiff...Danath....subangel...Whiplash...RCrop...Elektra...Malakye Micci: may a girl enter? fireNdark notes Malakye has a raised hand also Elronnd: enter MIcci... but if your a sub/slave change your cap please cinnamon^ whispers to fireNdark he is in the queue Micci: oopssss Elronnd: to indicate so.. `chell{Q}: forgive a girl sir.. was my alt nick :) Mastiff: Mine is a two part question....1) Do you also consider yourself a Dom in the D&s world, and 2) What is it in YOUR life....YOUR philosophy...that makes YOU Gorean Elronnd: enter and listen SirDaniel: 1) no.. I do not concider my self a Dom.. but that is by MY defination.. Mastiff: expound... SirDaniel: expound?.. Ok.. by my defination a Dom is in the bedroom only.. a Master is 24.7.. bahni{STR rests her head on allissa's shoulder as she listens Mastiff: are you into the tying and spankings and such? SirDaniel: 2.) my philosophy that makes me a Master.. and not a Dom is how I think about myself.. and how I treat my slave.. and the world around me. ZZebb is ready with his question. cinnamon^: queue: Danath....subangel...Whiplash...RCrop...Elektra...Malakye...kiss_met...Death_LoK..ZZebb ali{S-S} cuddles up with bahni and listens closly fireNdark: GA Danath Danath: I have grown to find that much of what Norman wrote about in his story of Gor is non fictional... such as the nature of human beings, and basic human biology... Men being dominant over women, by nature. Do you still feel that the books of Gor are fictional works? And also, you mentioned being Gorean as just another side of BDSM and D/s "leather"(?)... how do you relate Gor to BDSM? SirDaniel: and the answer to that would take me longer to answer .. correctly.. than I have time here.. but I will answer that by e-mail if you wish... Mastiff has time... Danath: Hmm ariel^ would like to hear the answer to that, too Danath: No need... the question is answered fireNdark: GA subangel subangel: is there any place for a submissive in the world of Gor? Or it strictly slaves? ali{S-S} peeks up at her Master and smiles ariel^: i must have missed the answer then DCs^kitN would like to remind all that this is a discussion evening and please ask everyone to refrain from play or scene behaviour for the duration of the discussion Danath smiles wryly kamira-MF smiles blankly Elektra^ smiles at Danath Stang watches quietly ^ponygrl^: Thank you, kitN! SirDaniel: subangel: to answer your question to the best of my ability .. yes.. there is.. if you ..and the Master/Mistress/Dom you wish to serve.. wishes there to be...by my defination.. and please do not count spelling on me tonight.. lassyALDR blinks ali{S-S} pales fireNdark: GA Whiplash ZZebb coughs. Whiplash: Many people won't like this, but...::shrug. Whiplash: Shouldn't a master, who is supposed to be in command of all things, base his standards on his own principles rather than rely on a series of, let's face it, fantasy books? DrkRider: hmm.. SirDaniel: Whiplash: just a moment.. so I may finish answering the last one... lassyALDR drops her jaw subangel smiles at SirDaniel Mastiff: Tal, Strummer kamira-MF: Greetings Master Stummer :) bahni{STR: greetings, Master :)) kimber{D} smiles...greetings Master Strummer :) lassyALDR: greetings Master Strummer :)) ali{S-S }: Greetings Master Strummer SirDaniel: subangle: Gor.. is a feeling.. it is NOT.. and I can not say this loud or long enough.. it is a feeling in YOU... if you wish gor to be part of you.. it will be.. Danath: Tal Strum Strummer smiles warmly Strummer: Tal Friends kamira-MF snuggles with her Master and vanea Danath sits quietly subangel: thank you, SirDaniel....i do not wish it to be, but i appreciate your answer, Sir. SirDaniel: if the Master you serve.. AND you wish to be gorean.. then you will be.. you can be. kamira-MF wrinkles her brow.. heart{A} smiles at SirDaniel, nodding her head DCs^kitN would like to remind all that this is a discussion evening and please ask everyone to refrain from play or scene behaviour for the duration of the discussion ariel^ raises her hand cinnamon^: Now Whiplash...Your question is next in the queue Whiplash: Shall I
repeat it? SirDaniel: Whiplash: "base his standards on his own principles " ..Hmmm.. Ok... but what is to say that the principles et down by John Noramn .. are no more valid for himm.. than say.. screw the roses?.. or the Loving Dominate?... kamira-MF: DCs^kitN please do not message kamira without permission from her Master...kamira is not allowed to answer Whiplash: For HIM...SirDaniel.....why for so many others? SirDaniel: they are NOT a bible.. they are guide lines.. they are written word so that people that feel the same way.. have a common thread.. Elronnd wathces with interest.. Mastiff: come girl...and sit with me quietly... kira{Z} thinks even the bible has been interpreted many different ways. DCs^kitN looks at kimara and reminds her she is a guest here and should prolly be following our rules this evening kimber{D} blinks fireNdark: GA RCCrop lassyALDR blinks tefra-MF- comes in and kneels quitly beside her Master and listens. RCrop: It seems that Goreans have a bad rep in the D/s community and we get a lot of abused subs on dalnet #domination and undernet #mdom and on the mdom listserv. Why is this bad rep so prevalent? ZZebb touches a finger to kira's lips. Mastiff: kamira follows my rules...period Strummer grins at Mastiff SirDaniel: Whiplash: I hope that answered you question.. Danath shakes his head Elronnd: oh no wdont statt the windkills SirDaniel: RCrop:
we get the same my friend.. and slaves that have left other channels for
more strict ones.. or less strict ones.. tapestry slips in and curls up between silky and rain Danath: Wb Mastiff SnowyOwl: Tal Whiplash: Not at all...but...::shrug::...the wind blows on... Mastiff smiles fireNdark: GA Elektra^ lassyALDR: greetings Master Mastiff Elektra^: hhmmmm thank you for your presentation SirDaniel... can you share with us whether you arrived to Gor from some other part of the scene or always were Gorean? RCrop: SirDaniel, most of them claim to have been abused by their Gorean Masters. ZZebb winces at Elektra's question. Danath: Define Abuse SirDaniel: arrived from the darkness just as most if not all of us have... did not know what it was that I felt.. or whoi I could share it with.... siara sits quietly and listens Danath: Is "abuse" when a man won't let a subbie paint his nails? RCrop: Their definintion of abuse not mine, hence the widespread bad rep for the Goreans. SirDaniel: when I first read the series.. I felt a kindred spirt with what the man was writing about..and how I felt. ali{S-S} grins up at Master Danath Bear- listens, smiling ZZebb swats at an insect. Elektra^: did ya read them all, SD? kamira-MF smiles prettily lassyALDR chuckles softly Stang: try reading it.. :) DCs^kitN reminds everyone again to please keep their sceneing and play comments to themselves for the discussion fireNdark: GA Malakye WWarrior: no offense..but I thought they were rather badly written Malakye: I think he has me on Ignore... Malakye looks to SirDaniel... beta: if you don't mind repetition and poor writing Elronnd wathces that macro get played out without any attention and conitnues listening Danath looks at the Kitn thoughtfully TheKttN: please ask Malakye and i will paste it Malakye: 2 parts Malakye: In a D/s relationship of any kind...The Master agrees to care and protect the slaves who submits......right? TheKttN: allow me to paste the first part tefra-MF- scoots closer to her Master. ^kaylee smiles and says hello TheKttN: Malakye: In a D/s relationship of any kind...The Master agrees to care and protect the slaves who submits......right? Hooch^: He better Mastiff wraps his legs around tefra SirDaniel will not take questions from Malakye at all Danath: Mastiff... pssst... no scening sugar` crawls to a corner.. curls up into a small ball.. and just rocks... Malakye: So why did you have sex with essence while you carried an STD...and tell her AFTER you did it? TheKttN: that is your choice SirDaniel i had assumed what would be next fireNdark rolls her eyes WWarrior tosses topaz ontop of Mastiff RCrop: Why is that "Sir" Daniel? lassyALDR blinks ali{S-S} hinds a giggle from behind a tiny hand kamira-MF: :) SirDaniel: yes you are kiss_met: laci^ groans Elronnd: gentlemen fireNdark: I believe kiss_met is next Danath smiles ( r/l ) Mastiff: ouch... Elektra^: I got a baad headache TheKttN looks at the channel name and thinks this is NOT submission_gossip kiss_met: i was wondering why Gorean women/slaves/kajiras always seem to refer to themselves in the 3rd person...like "May this girl enter? or May a girl get you anything?" WWarrior and topaz wave back SirDaniel: it is a personal thing and we are not here to discuss personal business WWarrior: *topaz* perk!!!! Malakye: personal???? Elektra^: say whaaaaaa? Malakye: personal??? sugar` stands up.. tired of all the petty bickering.. as a sub/slave.. we tend to expect Master/Mistresses to act a certain way... IMHO.. this is not how true Masters/Mistresses act.... Good bye Kahonez: enough Danath chuckles Kahonez: someone else has the floor now minnow1: dunno tefra-MF- pouts and wraps her arms around her Master also:-) Malakye: shall I continue??? ZZebb: Well, I guess she told y'all! Now behave, damn you! ZZebb hushes. Kahonez: no SirDaniel: kiss_met: I have always wondered the same.. it was used as a punishment.. to take a way a slaves name... Bad^: No Danath: K Zebber Kahonez: he declined your question Strummer smiles thoughtfully at sugar's exit line ;) Hooch^: LOL Zeb TheKttN: no Malakye you have made your point please stop kari: I think this is a good point though. SirDaniel has already said that a slave is property. How does that apply to safe sex and does the slave have a choice in health issues? beta: it is to remove any sense of value of "self"....i think its stoopid Danath: Seems sugar is in the know, eh? Elronnd: hehe kamira-MF: Yes Master Zeb :) Malakye: she would be. kamira-MF hushes SirDaniel: the only connection that a slave has that she can call her own.. WWarrior paces back and forth as he reads the scroll Elektra^: they don't have health issues..... read the books SirDaniel: if a Master takes it away.. he takes that connection... tefra-MF- licks kamira with happiness and gets topaz too. pash: hi all WWarrior: *topaz*mmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMmmmmmm beta: no aging or sickness on Gor, kari Mastiff: slaves...hush kari: Elektra: this is a discussion area. If the answers are to read the books, then what is the point of the discussion. SirDaniel: and then she is forced to use the third person.... but that is the only time. it is not meant to be used all of the time.. Elektra^: they don't even have PMS <giggle> beta: excuse me? Malakye eats his snickers bar beta: hush? kari: lol... Mastiff: my sluts better behave... Danath looks quizically at kari Elronnd swats juielle behave lil one juielle blinks !!!! beta: Is this or is it not a discussion room? kamira-MF smiles ProvokeMe: ATTENTION PLEASE kamira-MF: Yes Master TheKttN: please follow the QUEUE Hooch^: cinn.....I had a ? up there siara looks uh??? Danath grins at Mastiff ProvokeMe: This discussion has a format SirDaniel: who is next ProvokeMe: and a queue beta: the questions come up and no one answers them cinnamon^: Sorry, Hooch, Sir...sometimes the screen moves quickly...was unintentional to mee You, Sir ProvokeMe: extraneous comments are to be kept to yourself WWarrior: me me me me me !!1 ProvokeMe: or made privately WWarrior grinz cinnamon^: Queue: Death_LoK..ZZebb...MindFull...Stang...Elronnd...ariel...Hawkwood....ponygirl...Hooch TheKttN: open discussion will be AFTER the questions ZZebb suggests the use of moderation and voice. fireNdark: GA Death_Lok kiss_met: well, this has been slightly enlightening...and i will look up the web page, SirDaniel...thank you for taking the time to answer me <s> Death_LoK: So there would be no switching of roles? 2) How does a Free Person become enslaved? 3) How does a Free Peron get to be free? Bad^: SHH perhaps we should go back to oderated and only permit the next question to speak with the guest. ProvokeMe: those continually talking OUT of queue will be asked to leave ProvokeMe: IS THAT CLEAR? SirDaniel: kiss_met: thank you for attending silkysoft: why not moderate the discussion beta: i think moderated would be an excellent idea if the floor is not open *** Mode change "+m" on #submission_discuss by ProvokeMe SirDaniel: who is next.. cinnamon^: Death_LoK: So there would be no switching of roles? 2) How does a Free Person become enslaved? 3) How does a Free Person get to be free? cinnamon^: SirDaniel....Death_LoK had the next question... SirDaniel: no ..on Gor there is no "switching" as we know it in the D/s community... SirDaniel: 2.) usually by being taken in a raid.. a slave raid.. but in rl.. the submitt.. SirDaniel: 3.) by being set free by the Master/Mistress that owned then... fireNdark: GA ZZebb *** Mode change "+v ZZebb" on #submission_discuss by ProvokeMe ZZebb taps the microphone. ZZebb: Just checking. SirDaniel: >:) ZZebb: Your information on slaves Daniel was good. May I ask the source? ZZebb: I went to the web page you specified. I paste a bit: SirDaniel: http://www.cac-bbs.com/bondage/terms.html ZZebb: Pleasure Slave: A slave specially taught the arts of pleasure. A true pleasure slave knows the position of a slave, many dances, how to cook, serve, and how to make love to a man..all with superb skill. ZZebb: And you wrote this? SirDaniel: no..not at all... ZZebb: Do you know who did? SirDaniel: as I said.. the information on that page is from a great many areas.. other web pages.. the books... ZZebb: I know who wrote it :) SirDaniel: no not off the top of my head.. that web site is taken care of by a few different people... ZZebb: But here is my real question: Does a man need to own a slave to be a Master? *** Mode change "+v MindFul1" on #submission_discuss by ProvokeMe *** Mode change "-v ZZebb" on #submission_discuss by ProvokeMe SirDaniel: no he does not.. nor does a slave need to be owened/collar to be a slave.. it comes from the heart.. as do most truly felt emotions. fireNdark: GA Mindful1 MindFul1: SirDaniel, you evaded the question on your philosophy. What are the basic values and tenets of your philosophy? On what basis do you believe it has validity? *** Mode change "-v MindFul1" on #submission_discuss by ProvokeMe SirDaniel: MindFul1: did not evade it.. but said that I would answer it in e-mail.. and I will do the same for you if you wish. SirDaniel: GA Stang *** Mode change "+v Stang" on #submission_discuss by TheKttN Stang: You say that you are by your definition, a Master.. what then, do you consider a Dom(me), and do they, in your view, truely belong to the environment of Gor? SirDaniel: the e-mail in case you missed it... Is SirDaniel@blackrose.net TheKttN: if anyone would like to be in the QUEUE please /msg cinnamon^ ? or ! cinnamon^: Queue: Elronnd...ariel...Hawkwood....ponygirl...Hooch...rosestorm....lassyALDR....Rob_Roy...WWarrior...ZZebb *** Mode change "+v Elronnd" on #submission_discuss by ProvokeMe SirDaniel: I have gone it this on the web page.. and a lot do not agree with me.. that is why I have said this is MY defination.. a Dom(me) is in the bedroom only and when they enter that space.. they become Master..Mistress... so the answer would have to be yes... if they wish to be ...because GOR is in the heart and the mind. Stang: then Gor is a bedroom game... thank you for the answer SirDaniel: GA Elronnd Elronnd: Two things this time...one, training slaves/subs serving kneeling dances, helps them to open thier minds and hearts to the expression of submissivness...a way of helping her grow.. u agree? Elronnd: and Two....another note about the presentation is that gor can be viewed as separete states, each state.. having its own private customs as well... and those relationshipes between groups can be hostile stometies... u agree also? Elronnd glances to most of the Assembled and listens quietly SirDaniel: anything that help her.him open their mind and their heart to what they feel.. and that helps them grow.. is good.. no matter what it is. SirDaniel: GA ariel Elronnd: u didnt answer second question :) *** Mode change "+v ariel^" on #submission_discuss by ProvokeMe SirDaniel: Elronnd: my apologizes.. I am a look at the keyboard typist.. and did not see it...>:) ariel^: did that show up or do i need to say it again? Elronnd: :) n/p ProvokeMe: hold one sec ariel till SirDaniel answers part two of Elronnd's question ariel^: ok SirDaniel: if you look at gor as a "country" and and all of the different rooms as states.. each state does have its own customs.. and as we see slaves that move between those states.. they learn new customs... and yes.. it does cause problems not only between those states.. but with in those states as well SirDaniel: GA ariel ariel^: you say that you try to bring as much of gor into your daily lives as possible and then you go on to say that goreans consider children by their slaves to be slaves. do any of you really enslave or sell your children? i am unsure how seriously to take you SirDaniel: no ariel^.. you must have missed that part.. I said that on "Gor" that would be the way it would.. but we are talking rl.. here in america.. and no.. I would not do that.. nor do I beleive that children have any role in ANY D/s relationship. ariel^: oh good, im glad to hear that :-) SirDaniel: GA Hawkwood Hawkwood: John Norman created a culture in his novels. Many people like that culture and wish to role-play their way into it. So what's the big deal?...Those who don't like Gor should not participate, those who do should have fun. Not worth fighting about. SirDaniel: Agreed
Hawkwood.. that is why we have christian/Jew ..Ford/Chevy.. Rep/Dem..
freedom of choice. ^ponygrl^: thanks, this is in 2 parts ^ponygrl^: I have heard much talk of how important it is that the sub/slave submit, and express their submission. I would like to know what the Master/Mistress does to earn the respect of that slave in Gor terms. Is respect automatically assumed to be existing at a personal level between any slave and any Master/Mistress? ^ponygrl^: If a slave has issues with other Masters/Mistresses, how are those issues addressed in an open and communicative manner, and does it matter to you if you even hear your slave's opinion at all? SirDaniel: it is very important that a sub/slave submit.. the ACT of submitting is like a wedding cermony.. were the two involved exchange what they mean to each other...and as far as what they do.. that is up to each Master/slave.. what does the slave wish the Master to do.. what is it that draws her to him ?... that is how he earns her submission. SirDaniel: 2.) the way they would be addresses would be determined by the "issues".. and any Master or Mistress that does not listen to their slave has a problem ... and will not keep that slave long... SirDaniel: GA Hooch Hooch^: A few items I have Hooch^: First Hooch^: I have been watching the Goreans for a couple of years now, and I always hear mention of how honorable they are, but few have proven to me to be honorable.....do the Goreans police themselves at all or is it a matter of taking whoever will believe what they believe, no questions asked? SirDaniel: my experience has been that you take what you hear with a grain of salt.. do we police ourselfs?.. yes.. just as any 'faction' does.. when soem one proves to not be worth listening to.. you do not.. and as we all know.. the slaves have their own little pipeline... and they tend to let each other know is is honorable/trustable in their own way. Hooch^: Secondly.....it appears to me that some hide behind the "Master" image and couldn't Master their way out of a paper bag.....how are those ppl dealt with? SirDaniel: >:) I am sure that their is not a person in this room that has not seen that for Master/Mistres/slave... do we take them out and shoot them?.. NO..>:) Most are kicked and banned in the channels .. our form of shooting them... and the slaves as I have said.. have their own pipeline Hooch^: Thirdly.....Do you consider yourself to be honorable, held to a higher standard, because of your Gorean beliefs? SirDaniel: held to a higher standard?.. yes.. but only by me.. and not because I am Gorean.. but because "I" do.. and have since before I "became Gorean".. and I have to watch what I say.. what I do. because I have seen over the years.. people listen to me.. for one reason or other.. so it makes me think (usually) before I act.. or speak.. SirDaniel: GA rosestorm *** Mode change "+v roseStorm" on #submission_discuss by ProvokeMe roseStorm: Sir Daniel, I believe you may need assistance to answer my question as it pertains to the slaves. What is the attraction of the Gorean way of life for a slave? Why do you chose it . . . cyber and/or real life. If this answer will take too much time, those wishing to answer may message me for my Email addy. *** Mode change "+v lassyALDR" on #submission_discuss by ProvokeMe SirDaniel: Thank you.. I will defer that to one of the slaves here..>:) SirDaniel: GA lassyALDR lassyALDR: Master SirDaniel, perhaps the people of this channel and others would like to know that there is a discussion *only* channel on austnet (#Silk&Steel) for those who have an interest in the Gorean lifestyle and the tenets of the philosophy, however the question is this: lassyALDR: the reputation of Gor has been dirtied by submissives who can't cope with the strict lifestyle of Gor ..why would You say that Gor is a place for submissives when they enjoy dominating and controlling a Man? SirDaniel: if they can not cope.. then they will leave.. on their own.. and a submissive does not "enjoy dominating and controlling a Man" that is not a submissive at all.. that is a TOP that can not survive as one..and uses the submissive role to find some one that they can top. lassyALDR: that is most submissives Master as that is the D/s role lassyALDR: they control everything lassyALDR: with safewords,
etc ... ProvokeMe: The channel is moderated so that those with questions may orderly ask them without interruptio n. Please message cinnamon^ with a ? for a question or a ! for a comment to be placed in the Queue *** Mode change "+v Rob_Roy" on #submission_discuss by ProvokeMe SirDaniel: GA Rob_Roy Rob_Roy: Is Gor the only right way? if so why? if not, why is it so often put forth that way by it's advocates? Rob_Roy: I raise this issue because I have, during the time I used to frequent Gorean channels found that many women were unaware of any other alternative views, Rob_Roy: and in fact were often berated for not agreeing with the tenets, not directed elswhere... SirDaniel: Rob_Roy: I would be very foolish if I stood here and said it was the ONLY way.. just as I would be if I said FORD is the only car... and for the same reasons that in the christian faith you are taught about christ... and not about allah... you teach what you are... SirDaniel: GA Bad *** Mode change "+v Bad^" on #submission_discuss by TheKttN Bad^: I am a Dom, I am not a student of Gor.. , but I must deal with it's "presence" in the world of Domination and submission. Do I understand you to be dismissing all the facets of Domination exploration...training, bondage, servitude, pain, humiliation, non sexual service, and sexual service: as being just a bedroom game.. Bad^: while a true "Master" is more elevated because it is a 24/7 Gorean fixation? Or is this a perosnal non Gorean slant on BDSM? SirDaniel: I have not dismissed any of those my friend.. none at all... and do not look at them as "just a bedroom game".. what I have said.. is MY own defination of a Dom(me) is that they restrict it to the bedroom .. and do not pratice it 24/7.. the tiem frame is the ONLY thing that differentiates between the two.. not what they beleive while it is happening.. or the methods used. SirDaniel: GA Mindful MindFul1: SirDaniel, you evaded the question on philosophy once again. Any firmly held philosophy can be summarized in a sentence or two, and I invite you to do that. What are the underlying values of the philosophy? I submit that there is *no* rational philosophy (at least among online Goreans), that Gor is fantasy gaming, nothing more, and that any claims to more than that have no substance. I welcome you to prove me wrong now. Referra SirDaniel: Mindful: you are probally correct.. some one that is a writer might be bale to do that.. I can not.. so I have provide a alternate mthod of doing it.. via e-mail.. if you would like the answer .. I will send it.. SirDaniel@blackrose.net SirDaniel: GA Elronnd Elronnd: ack ProvokeMe: was that a comment or question Elronnd??? LOL Elronnd: woudl you give us some examples of how the transition to things online to real life, is accomplished Elronnd: ive noted that some submissives come to Gor for more extensive training or stricter obedience SirDaniel: OK.. two examples that I use in my everyday life.. Elronnd: and have always viewed honor by what ive seen.... the saying is that Gor isnt fair.. SirDaniel: my slaves do not eat their meals with me.. they kneel next to me as I eat.. if I wish to feed them from my pate.. I do.. they eat in the kitchen..after the table is cleared.. they do not sleep with me.. but on their bedding next to mine.. chained to the foor of the bed... SirDaniel: there are as many areas to bring the feeling of Gor into your every day life as the Master or the Mistress can think of.. but THEY have to think of them.. SirDaniel: GA silkysoft silkysoft: To what extent does a Gorean Master have for the health of his slave? Is she to submit completely and totally even if her own health is at rish. What if the Master she is with has Aids? Is she so much a piece of property that he doesn't need to tell her about health risks? SirDaniel: we are talking about real life here ladies and gentlemen.. we are not on "GOR".. and yes.. I would hope that the Master or Mistress would tell them.. and it is up to the slave as well to ask the questions of the Master or Mistress she wishs to serve.. that she would ask a boyfriend or husband in a vanillia relationship.. remember.. I said a slave has a mind.. she has to use it.. SirDaniel: GA subangel subangel: This is a statement only...no answer is needed. i take offense at the statement made by lassyALDR categorizing all submissives as dominating and controlling a Man...it is grossly in error...an untrue statement. And when i posed my question about submissives having a place in Gor it was for an answer...not because i wanted to go to Gor. i do not want, or ever intend, to go to Gor. Thank you, SirDaniel, for clarifying after the SirDaniel: GA cherry{Pa *** Mode change "+v cherry{Pa" on #submission_discuss by TheKttN cherry{Pa: i have done so SirDaniel cherry{Pa: can you see my question? cinnamon^: cherry, you weren't +v yet, we didn't see your question SirDaniel: cherry{Pa it did not show on screen cherry{Pa: i will type it again cinnamon^: could you please paste it or reask? Thanks cherry{Pa: my Master has set me the task of finding others who live the same lifestyle as us but ut seems before i am accepted in any channel i must learn to serve Gorean food and drink with much discriptive language is there anywhere where people can meet with out this rols play ProvokeMe: #submission (plug plug) Hooch^: Heh cinnamon^: LOL ProvokeMe, Sir fireNdark laughs ProvokeMe: sorry... couldn;t help it... my apologies... : ) Hooch^ hands Provoke an advertizing agreement.....Sign here, here, and here SirDaniel: cherry{Pa: there are a great many channels out there.. and at last count I think there were 15 different nets.. I am sure there are.. if you are asking me to point one out to you .. there is submission.. and Bondage and BondageII .. in Bondage and BondageII you only serve if you wish to... as I have said.. we are sort of the "Learnign channel".. the grey line between "Gor" and the reat of the D/s community.. cherry{Pa: thank you SirDaniel: and on Austnet there is Silk&Steel which is a discussion area as well SirDaniel: GA Hooch Hooch^ grins.....Thanks Hooch^: Dan.....I have visited many channels and talked to many people.....some get very defensive about their Gor when questioned.....I would like to know if in your vast experience have you run across many that really do not understand the edicts of what you follow, or just really do not grasp it or the whole D/s principle? SirDaniel: I have seen every thing from the Alpha to the Omega.. but those people are usually very closed mind already.. so there is little hope already..>:) cinnamon^ thinks people fear what they do not understand..and when frightened strike out, ridicule etc....what people forget in all of D/s is there are so many different levels, rituals, techniques, activities....we don't have to like the all, we don't even have to udnerstand them all...but we should be respectful of people who chose even those things we don't understand SirDaniel: and again .. that is why we have Republicans.. and Democrats..>:) and now Perot..>:) Hooch^ nods......Closed minded pretty much covers it Hooch^ is done for the moment Hooch^: My thanks *** Mode change "-m" on #submission_discuss by ProvokeMe ProvokeMe: Gag lifted : )) Elektra^ thank you cinnamon SirDaniel: no my friend.. Thank you for aloow me to come here and speak. ProvokeMe now puts his ear plugs in... : ) heart{A} sighs, stirring as she settles back on her bare heels cinnamon^ smiles....couldn't restrain ehrself any longer..and apologizes for speaking out of turn sassysub groans...wow, i can finally talk!!!!! <first time i've ever been shut up for this long!!!!!> Elronnd: nnow nl nwoudl nlike nto nspeak nwithout nthe ngag :) Malakye: Can I talk now??? Bad^: Well I for one find Domination much more then sex games. Power exchange works on many levels. rabbit_ thanks SirDaniel and all those who were polite and respectful during the discussion pearl`` softly whispers...... " can some one please tell this one what the initials stand for ??? " Malakye: kewl... kahi{E}` smiles at Master Daniel :)))) thank you, Master ...and thank you to the ops of this channel... summerain: cinnamon: you said what a lot of us were thinking Elronnd ehars the TUHD as his guard settels near his door for the evening kahi{E}`: yes cinn..you did sister :)) heart{A} smiles at Master Daniel, her head lifted proudly to be Gorean and a slave filli`: yes cinnamon/cinn cinn^: there...now those of you from undernet and #BondageII will know who i am pearl``: oops can some one please tell this one what the initials *GA* stand for ??? " summerain: thank you Sir Daniel and to the people who were polite and respectful and to the ops for taking control when it was needed :) Elronnd: and ythose from Efnet Dalnet and AUstnet know hwo l am :) cinn^: GA=go ahead Elronnd: waves ^ponygrl^: I can't let this one go... If they are chained to the floor at night, is that *truly* safe if there were a fire or other emergency? Im very serious...or perhaps you've never lived through that horror. Chaining someone at night is a *very* dangerous practice. Please please don't do that!!!!!! It is *not* safe...accidents *do* happen. Think seriously about that, it is not a joke. It is *NOT* safe! I am talking R/L here, not fantasy summerain: lol, hiya cinn :) roseStorm: heart: would you consider answering my earlier question about the appeal of Gor to a slave? SirDaniel: pearl`` Go Ahead Malakye chuckles never seen Dan dodge so fast....well done pearl``: thank you SirDaniel ;) Mastiff would like to hear Bear speak... Elektra^: I'm really surprised no one mentioned John Norman tonite and what his vews might be heart{A} smiles at roseStorm heart{A}: yes of course sister......what was your question? TheKttN: SirDaniel, thank you so much for this evening:) Malakye: ponygirl...thats a crock....trust me...message essence rabbit_: ponygrl...i chain ,yself up every night...but i can get out of it...its possible to be chained and still be able to escape if need be Covenant: <--not a Gorean, but appalled by many of those questions SirDaniel: the are chaine d the bed post..and that chain it to a ankle restraint they can remove in a emergency cinn^: thank You, Master SirDaniel... MindFul1: SirDaniel, when you were preparing for your presentation, why did you not prepare to discuss the basic philosophy? Whatever it is, it would be the ideas at the very heart of whatever is Gorean, and that is what people want to know. elizaKink: thank you Sir Daniel roseStorm: heart: I'd like to know why Gor appeals to you Bear-: What could I say that could possibly make any difference, Mastiff. I have sat where Daniel sat many times on both Ef and Dalnet. :) Those who will not understand will continue to refuse to do so, and those who can, will. ;) SirDaniel: TheKttN, cinn^.. thank you for the chance to speak. Mastiff: I like hearing you talk, Bear Mastiff chuckles cinn^: Master Bear...a pleasure to meet You, Sir heart{A}: sister rose, for a long time this girl was in a basic BDSM channel....and one day was sent to learn the Gorean way of serving Malakye: Thank you SirDaniel. It was a pleasure to see the view of a great CYBER Master! Elronnd: Tal Bear ,Mastiff Mastiff nods heart{A}: in Gor, this girl found discipline, self control, beauty and formality of style and speech that appeals to the slave in her Bear-: Tal Elronnd heart{A}: to be a Gorean pleasure slave is to make the pleasure of her Master the top priority to this girl ember` is not gorean either, and she would like to thank the channel moderators for showing honor in their dealings with all comers, even those who showed none themselves. Elektra^: does anyone agree that we're talking about trinkets and ignore John Norman's philosophy... probably because we don't understand it? ^ponygrl^: Thanks ProvokeMe for moderating so gallantly! <g> heart{A}: not physical pleasure but simply making him happhy and proud cinn^ smiles at ember SirDaniel: MindFul1: to be perfectly honest.. that did not cross my mind.. and for that I apologize Malakye: There is nothing wrong with Gor heart. Only the Master speaking. He is just do that, only speaking. ProvokeMe: I was disappointed, not with SirDaniel or the discussion, but with some of the participants.... those who just could not pass up a chance to get their digs or flames in. You distaste for the subject matter SHOULD NOT show in your questions. If you are not here to learn or explore, you picked the wrong forum Covenant: Elektra...John Norman is not the issue. The man couldn't get paid to write copy for the back of a toothpaste tube if it werent for sex. ember`: very true ^essence will be directing her questions to the Master she once served in R/T whome she thought had honor via email filli` watches and continues to learn..and is surprised to see so many lines drawn...lines that seem to overlap...and smiles at the lovely variety of human desires panthera is not Gorean but is fascinated by rituals and has had samplings of it mila{C} giggles heart{A}: sister rose, have you ever seen a gorean pleasure slave serve her Master a drink? Bear-: Then toss them from the channel, Provokeme, but do not rail against human nature. It is futile. rabbit_: i read the books for years...loved the fantasy of it and enjoyed lots of thoughts and dreams of slaveyr to that level...but as a real lifestyle slave...its simply not possible to "live" a Gorean lifestyle like the books....aint happening on earth anywa panthera does not agree with the philosophies of male and female that is expounded in the Gor books Elektra^: Einstein worked in a patent bureau, Covenant cinn^: cherry...you asked about the serving fromalities...i go into SirDaniel's channel....#BondageII on undernet and tell everyone i'm not gorean...refuse to speak in the third person and describe myself as a smart assed slave/submissive...iv'e been welcomed and accepted as i am roseStorm: Thank you, heart...we are not much different then because I do my best to pleasure my rl Master in all ways and he has taught me discipline and self control (hehehe and is still teaching!)...Thank you. MindFul1: Elektra, why can't anyone even say what the philosophy is when the discussion is about Gor? ProvokeMe: The problem with that Bear... is that there were actual questions asked.... surrounded by the flames... I didn;t want the question to go unanswered Covenant: Elektra...and Truman was a haberdasher. And? heart{A}: but panthera, does that mean you cannot respect those who believe differently Elronnd: cinn... but you damn well know taht that doesnt happen averywhere on Gor Elronnd: or on irc heart{A}: the BDSM community is frowned upon by the rest of the world...can we not have tolerance between ourselves? panthera: heart...oh :) i do very much respect them heart{A}: oh not you, sister heart{A}: this one mean the general YOU Elektra^: and, let's discuss the issue not persons, Covenant Elronnd: jsut because one traiing hall accepts it an helps you understand it and some formality otherplaces will kick you out faster than you can say cinn cinn^: Elronnd, Sir...i am me no matter where i am....people can take it or leave it....irc or real life DCs^kitN: i must admit that i was disappointed that some took the opportunity to be show off their Gorian behavior and not respecting the rules of the channel Malakye: SirDaniels views are his own and he is laughed at by the other Gorean rl Masters that I have met. That is the problem with the discussion. It should have been The worl of SirDaniel and not Gor. DCs^kitN: i understand that in Gor you must only obey certain types ember`: I personally think they are poorly written and not even the sex is good, but I enjoy the company in channel for the most part, the discussions, and yes, I do think that many so called gorean Masters think that all there is to a Master/ slave relationship is sex, which we all know is not true. summerain: heart: EXACTLY panthera: heart , if that is what the slave wants...to be ruled by the philosophy then more power to her...i just dont agee with the basic philosophy :) Elronnd: cinn.. winks... im jsut stating what ive seen.. Bear-: I understand Provokme. :) It is not an easy thing, running something like this. And tonight there were some built-in frictions. roseStorm: no I have no heart heart{A}: not true DCs^kitN: but if you leave Gorian channels i don't see why you can't obey those channels rules Covenant: Elektra, my point is that the books are dreadful. The lifestyle that came out of it (the product of lots of people and their input) is the issue cinn^: Elronnd...i wasn't refering to other channels or places...just of the kindness i have found in one place Elektra^: What is Gor, Mindfull? for you? SirDaniel: MindFul1: if you would care to help write it I would be thankful// heart{A}: no.....this girl is ruled by her Master....not by a philosophy Elronnd: cinn jsut meant in general .. you were fortunate to find one .. heart{A}: sister rose, a properly done Gorean serve is beautiful Elektra^: the books are enchanting, Covenant. Old World H.G. Wells style.... heart{A}: it is descriptive, elegant, sensual Elektra^: but there is more there than style Mastiff is himself...in Gorean channels...other channels and in life... cinn^: and cherry specifically asked for places that would be accepting...ProvokeMe mentioned #submission here...my irc home....i simply mentioned one other MindFul1: Elektra, I'm asking the question to find out what the philosophy is. I'd like someone to say something that indicates it is more than game playing. TheWolfe is a teacher (& always a student) of bdsm. I appreciate the Gor World & see it as another choice. I have difficulty however, with purely cyber relationships in any alternative lifestyle. rabbit_: i agree kitN....if the behavior presented by the "Goreans" is a sample of expected behavior of the slaves there....well...i wasnt impressed tonight and was sad to see the channel have to go +m Elronnd: Mastiff.. we can only be who we are subangel: there is more to Ds than rituals or serving styles in my opinion Covenant: The books are pulp, but since this isn't devoted to literary criticism, I'll let it go :) summerain: well, this girl is heading back to undernet... thank you all :) panthera: good for you heart :) chainy: I have usually found that when someone starts to judge someone elses lifestyle it isnt long before someone will come along and start to judge their! Bear-: How about this, Mindful: Bear-: Honor, integrity, brotherhood. TheKttN: well rabbit that is a bit general Elronnd: cliques |