The Eroticism of Pain
Speakers: SirBob and Raven^
May 31, 1998

SirBob and Raven's BDSM Pages
http://www.smartweb.net/~raven

S/M Forum, please subscribe at:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/sm

*** Topic for #submission_discuss set by AxL on Sunday, May 31, 1998 6:01:26 PM

TM`sKttN: Welcome everyone. And a special thanks to SirBob and Raven who will be speaking tonight on "The Eroticism of Pain". We ask that you keep your greetings to /msg and afford the speakers the curtesy of our attention.

TM`sKttN: We also ask that you hold your question till the time that we open QUEUE and they will be answered in order with an open forum following the Q&A.

TM`sKttN: We will be turning this over to SirBob and Raven at this time. Thanks :)

TM`sKttN: Please be sure to visit SirBob and Raven's BDSM Pages at http://www.smartweb.net/~raven and to join their S/M Forum please subscribe at http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/sm

SirBob: I am Bob and my wife's name is Raven. We‚d like to give you some basic backdrop and how we stumbled into this lovely world of gratification and pain. I am sure many of you met my wife, either from the various mailing lists that she partakes in, or Internet Relay Chat, some have come to know us through our webpage. We are both 31 years old and college sweethearts, we always incorporated kink into our bedroom, but never as ceremoniously and sternly as we got into roughly 3 years ago.

SirBob: Raven is my wife's slave name, I gave her that name as I placed a collar on her and we exchanged vows as Master and slave, we were vacationing in the White Mountains at the time. For the purpose of this discussion it is very consequential to keep in mind that both myself and my wife have a point of view that agrees on the topic of slavery. As much as we'd like to think that my wife is a slave we also realize that there is no true slavery in the USA.

SirBob: My wife is my best friend first, she is the mother of my son, my whore, and my lady, she is all the things that any man would dream of owning. Together we are building a foundation of trust honesty love and devotion.

SirBob: Raven's curiosity was the characteristic book introduction, the story of O. We've experimented and played in the bedroom, even then without any experience or a name to what I was doing, I remember the joy I felt at seeing her tears, seeing her eyes focused on me as if she's worshipping me in a godly kind a way, that look that now I know all too well.

SirBob: Since then we‚ve come a long way. We've explored many paths and venues and stopped at the one that called our name, BDSM. We are remarkably lucky in the sense that we are compatible in the full sense of the word, as friends, lovers, husband and wife, and top , bottom.

SirBob: Raven switches and is permitted to play with others, under one condition; I must be present, Raven tops others always bottom to me.

SirBob: As a friend once said, it isn't always paradise, we are people like the rest of you, we fight we yell, we respect each other, we love each other. After 12 years the fire and passion is burning high between us, we are attracted to each other as two animals in heat, we can go from one extreme to another both in and out of bed. Sometimes it gets so intense that it almost seems like a fantasy.

SirBob: We enjoy living for the moment and living dangerously although she seems to enjoy the dangerous part a bit more then I do. I‚ve taken Raven (sexual penetration) in the most public places, on a spur of the moment thing. As they say opposites attract and we are the perfect example, she is an exhibitionist, and I enjoy displaying her.

SirBob: The odd thing about her is that sometimes she'll disrobe without a problem, while other times she burns beet red. Our play is rarely planned, I guess that is because we are married and live together as some may consider 24/7. The power exchange in our relationship is considered equal, we share chores, and responsibilities equally.

SirBob: The control though is always there, Raven without a doubt is subservient to me in all ways, As any other slave Raven gets punished and has rules by which she lives. My wife is the type of a person that needs to be controlled, all the time, with too much slack she will hang herself.

SirBob: Sadomasochism has become a part of who and what we are.

SirBob: Often I incorporate SM into our everyday life, for example, Raven‚s butt is plugged most of them, at work or home, sometimes I cover the plug with soap before inserting it. I often require that she walks around with Ben-wa balls inside of her vagina, sometimes I‚ll add a butterfly over her clit and send her off to work or shopping. As she walks she can hear and feel the soft chime of the balls, and the buzz of the butterfly. Corsetry isn't my thing but sometimes I require that she walks around in one for some time, sometimes it's only for a day, sometimes it's a year.

SirBob: The best scenes we have are always in a public place, the fear of getting caught makes us do crazy things. Living on the edge makes the blood pump quicker, puts an added spice to everything I lead her on a chain in public from time to time, I had her nipples pierced last year and her labia at the beginning of this year, I grew tired of the labia rings so I took them off.

SirBob: We have a dungeon at home, where I can torture Raven without the worries that anyone may hear., a small luxury that we are fortunate to have. In the Dungeon, I built a St.Andrews cross, a bondage bed, suspension poles (which I am about to complete).

SirBob: I do things to her that make her melt, things that bring out the woman in her and at the same time bring out the child, to see that lost look in her eyes is priceless.

SirBob: Together we found the meaning of who we are, our relationship is a union of two spirits that have become one.

TM`sKttN: We are now going to open the QUEUE, please type a ! or ? in the channel and we will call on you in order. To save time please have your questions ready. Thanks :)

TM`sKttN: GA chyna{E}

chyna{E}: An obvious question, your child, what does he know of your lifestyle?

SirBob: our child is only 6. he knows very little, but he is too smart for his own good

SirBob: he does not see or hear when we play

chyna{E}: What will you tell him of your lifestyle??

Raven^: we aren't behaving in any way for him to get suspicious

Raven^: in our family the women are subservient on both sides mine and Bob's the women served the men

Raven^: it isn't unusual for our son to see me serve food to Bob first and not start eating unless he starts first

Raven^: we behave as any normal parents do. And when the time comes, and if he asks, we will tell him the way things are. Obviously the sexual part is not something that he will know.

Raven^: done.

chyna{E}: TU RAven and SirBob

TM`sKttN: GA QueenDom

QueenDom: I have a few questions

QueenDom: What do you consider subservient actions out of the bedroom?

QueenDom: How do you punish those actions

QueenDom: and If you're are being led around in public by a chain...won't your child notice that?

Raven^: I have chores that are assigned by Bob on daily basis

Raven^: out of the bedroom subservience: take his shoes and jacket when he gets home from work

Raven^: serve him anything he asks of me:Food, cigarettes, hold the book for him while he reads

Raven^: not interrupt when he speaks

QueenDom: can I rephrase that

QueenDom: What do you do that deserves to be punished?

QueenDom: I apologize for that

Raven^: rules that I don't obey, or things he asked me to do which I haven't completed

Raven^: chores that are not completed to his satisfaction, due to my carelessness not due to his pickiness

Raven^: done on first part.

Raven^: being led on a chain isn't in the house.

Raven^: We go away allot, on weekends, to other states to other bdsm events

Raven^: I've walked on a leash in the middle of Manhattan on a few occasions as well.

Raven^: But that was to be led to a club or to friends house who are in the scene.

QeenzBtch: You are braver than I.. I walked on the subway in the middle of Manhattan.. boy, was THAT a mistake

Raven^: though few people will notice, for me it's enough, the psychological impact is there.

Raven^: done.

TM`sKttN: GA anima

anima` has tons of questions, but I guess the one I'd most be interested in the answer to would be this: how do you know when to stop...in both the broad sense and the scene specific sense. Second, Raven, when I'm doing bdsm things I don't ouch. Literally. So saying a safeword when I hurt is pointless. I don't hurt. Do you hurt? And if you do, what level of pain is Bob uncomfortable with giving? And please do pardon me if these are too personal.

Raven^: First I'd like to say that I don't have safe words, as Bob mentioned we are lucky that we are compatible. Bob is very good at reading me, body language facial expressions, the temperature of my body, my pulse, the way my eyes look...

Raven^: done on part one. Bob is going to add.

SirBob: I would like to point out that i am not here to hurt Raven

SirBob: my goal is to give her pleasure thru pain

SirBob: i know her well enought to know how to peal her layers, to let her float away, to know when its enough, so as she does not get hurt

SirBob: done

Raven^: okay part two ...

Raven^: of course I hurt

Raven^: I am a human being.

Raven^: I'm not a complainer in a scene, so I don't ouch even if it's really painful

Raven^: it isn't an advise that I would give anyone.

Raven^: I do scream and do moan and do cry, I have fainted on numerous occasions from the intensity of the pain

Raven^: But again, he knows me well enough to prevent permanent damage.

Raven^: done.

TM`sKttN: GA chyna{E}

chyna{E}: What type of play sessions do you have? And, do they always end in orgasm?

Raven^: I orgasm from pain.

Raven^: it has to be intense pain though, usually a flogging, or a caning

Raven^: we've played with fire, suspension, flogging, single tails, caning, bondage, clamps, facial deformations, mummification,

Raven^: sheesh...the list is huge

Raven^: caught me off guard on this one

Raven^ laughs

Raven^: We don't play much with needles as it is something Bob isn't very big on

Raven^: nor am I.

Raven^: I like giving them not receiving them.

Raven^: done.

sassy-IP: GA jamgirl

jamgirl: Raven, do you enjoy and want the pain..or do you take it because you know it pleases Bob?

Raven^: I waited for this one

Raven^ grins

Raven^: I"m what they call a majorly pain slutt

Raven^: although at times Bob has disagreed with me.

Raven^: I enjoy pain

Raven^: I enjoy pain allot

Raven^: I don't enjoy stubbing my toe

Raven^: nor do I enjoy getting teeth pulled without novocaine

Raven^: I do crave the pain from Bob

SirBob: though i enjoy inflicting pain on Raven, what I enjoy more is the after effect

SirBob: the emotion that comes out after a scene, the closeness, ravens complete submission, the intimacy...oh yes, and the tears

SirBob: i love to see those tears in her eyes

SirBob: done

jamgirl: thank you both

sassy-IP: GA cali{Cro}

cali{Cro}: who decides when a new pain element is introduced...ex. from flogging to caning initially...does SirBob decide it is time for something new or does Raven ask for it..and (2) how long did it take You, SirBob to learn Raven well enough to know how far You could take her without taming her?

cali{Cro}: harming her, excuse me sheesh

Raven^: sheesh taming me...

Raven^: hehe

Raven^: an impossible task

cali{Cro} blushes

SirBob: let me start with number 2 first

SirBob: its not just that i know raven very well

SirBob: with every scene things are different

SirBob: i am a very carefull player

SirBob: my primary concern is my partners well being

SirBob: I like to push the envelope but just so much

SirBob: and only when i see that my partner is responding to my demands

SirBob: in a positive way

SirBob: i have played with other partners

SirBob: for the first time

SirBob: and with most, I have been able to bring them

SirBob: where they sought to go

SirBob: and I do want to point out that it was where THEY wanted to go

SirBob: I assured that their satisfaction was achieved via lenghty communication prior to the scene

SirBob: now Part I

SirBob: I choose what and when new things are introduced

SirBob: done.

sassy-IP: GA chyna{E}

chynarose: sassy yes...thanks

chynarose: Raven do you call SirBob Master 24/7 or is that reserved for private moments??

Raven^: No no no no

Raven^ laughs

Raven^: Bob has no liking to any honorary titles

Raven^: although

< font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="-1">Raven^: during a scene he does ask the notorius question that all sub's know so well....<WEG>

chynarose grins...

Raven^: "Who's your Master"

Raven^ ducks

Raven^: I know I'm gonna get it for this one

sassy-IP gets the trade question

chynarose chuckles!

sassy-IP: lol

Raven^: no he doesn't like titles

Raven^: Bob is okay...with just Bob.

chynarose: thanks Raven :)

Raven^: done.

sassy-IP: GA sayuri

sayuri: I just wanted to comment on Raven's liking pain...personally I consider myself a masochist but i don't like pain for pains sake..opposite of Raven...i take the pain to please the dominant but i do get a rush afterwards, the mental aspect of it is what i LOVE...i do wish i could like pain like Raven does though :)))

Raven^ chuckles

Raven^: sayuri, remind me to ask you when this discussion is over.

Raven^: done.

sayuri: ok Raven :)

sassy-IP: GA margaret_

margaret_: Raven has said that she specifically craves pain from Bob.

margaret_: Bob, aside from the emotional stuff afterwards, which you obviously enjoy, do you specifically crave giving pain to Raven?

margaret_: Or will any old masochist do?

SirBob: raven is special for obvious reasons

SirBob: but my pleasure is derived from knowing that i am able to give a submissive what she needs and craves

margaret_: So any masochist will do?

sayuri chuckles

cali{Cro} giggles

sassy-IP: trick question, sayuri ;o)

wyld_imp listens.

Raven^: okay

Raven^: let me clarify

sayuri: yes LOL

Raven^: Bob revels in the knowledge that he is able to give a woman that satisfaction she seeks

Raven^: he does not enjoy inflicting pain in general he isn't sadistic

Raven^: he enjoys what the pain does to me

Raven^: the results that are clearly visible after the pain is gone

Raven^: as he said he played with others that sought pain and the fact that he was able to satisfy the craving is what brought him pleasure.

Raven^: done.

sassy-IP: GA Bradney

Bradny: when you travel via airports do you remove piercing jewlery ? i have heard that at times it can set off alarms i have also heard of friends having their toy bags checked..and you ? also for SIR BOB do you soak your canes in brine ?

Raven^: since my piercings I have not travelled via air

Raven^: so I couldn't respond to that

Raven^: and if they do set the alarms off, oh boy are they in for a shock

Raven^: done.

SirBob: I have never soaked my canes

SirBob: and have plans to start

SirBob: if it breaks, i purchase a new one

SirBob: done

sassy-IP: GA allya

allya: Sir Bob, you stated that you tired of Raven's labia rings and removed them. Why did you tire of them? Did they get in the way during play?

SirBob: well now...this is going to make all of you smile a bit

SirBob: I don't like the taste of metal

Bradny: :)

SirBob: :)

SirBob: the novelty wore off

SirBob: It was great, new exciting, it was fun having a friend pierce her and putting it on video tape...

SirBob: and after several months I decided that it isn't what I want.

SirBob: done.

allya: thank you Bob =)

sassy-IP: GA cali{Cro}

cali{Cro}: first, Raven, do you ever crave more pain than you are getting, and if so, how do you convey that...(2) how did you both discover you were into erotic pain to begin with, if that's not too personal

Raven^: nothing is personal hon...ask away..

Raven^: our comminication is very good

Raven^: we talk about scenes when they are over

Raven^: how did we discover....I don't know....it was always there I guess as Bob stated initially we were always kinky

Raven^: and it just ivolved

Raven^: into what it is today.

Raven^: done.

sassy-IP: we have 3 ppl left in the queue...after lindsay asks her next question, we will open the floor for open discussion

cali{Cro}: thank you Raven

sassy-IP: um, make that 4 ppl left

sayuri: i just wanted to say...that recently i took a vacation...and my piercing set off the airport alarm in Portland, Oregon on my way home. They took a small hand held thing and made me hold my arms out..embarrassing! i felt like a criminal LOL

sassy-IP: sayuri, GA pls

sassy-IP: Raven, SirBob, do you want to respond to that?

Raven^ shakes her head

Raven^: nope

sassy-IP: okie

Raven^: I guess I'll have to wait my turn to be embarrased.

Raven^: done.

sassy-IP: GA xandria

sassy-IP: lol

sayuri: lol

xandria: just a side note..the piercing do not set off the alarms..they are surgical stainless generally so not picked up..least not mine unlike say's :>

xandria: a little out of place now..lol

sayuri: well something set off that alarm in ore

sayuri: LOL

Raven^: must be your lovely nipples sayuri

sassy-IP: xandria, do you have a ? or ! hon?

Raven^ grins.

sayuri: LOL Raven :)

xandria: ohh..i did sassy..

sassy-IP: that was it?

xandria: yes..done

sassy-IP laughs....i'm lost

sassy-IP: ok

sassy-IP: Bradney, GA

Bradny: do you use diff gauge rope depending on how long you expect a scene to last ? thicker gauges tend not to restrict circulation as much i have found ?

SirBob: rope bondage depends on technique used

SirBob: depends on what you wish to achieve in rope bondage

SirBob: rope bondage can be used as punishement, knots could be tied over pressure points,

SirBob: etc...

SirBob: the time isn't a factor if you know what you are doing.

SirBob: done.

sassy-IP: GA lindsay

lindsay: the first time you both decided to have an intense scene, was there any nervousness worrying that you would not fulfill each others needs or wants, and SirBob since you are really not a sadist how did you come about being able to give Raven the pain she desired

Raven^: As stated previously our scenes aren't really planned...we don't negotiate scenes and never know which scene will be pushing limits

Raven^: since were both travelled together into this lifestyle we couldn't have any expections

Raven^: we had no clue what we were doing

Raven^: and we learned through trial and error <sort of>

Raven^: it is a learning experience for a life time.

Raven^: done.

andromda: SirBob, we have heard from Raven how the scenes and pain affect her. How do your scenes affect you emotionally? i.e. What are your emotional responses to them?

SirBob: My emotions rage from being comletely distant <when I need to punish her>.

SirBob: To a complete emotional break down

SirBob: where we both fell into eachothers arms in tears

SirBob: to see her face

SirBob: her eyes

SirBob: the closeness, the bond between us...

SirBob: done.

andromda: Thank you SirBob.

sassy-IP: We will now go to open discussion....pls feel free to yap yer jaws/fingers off *smile*

Bradny: hey raven and BOB nice saying hi last night :)

TM`sKttN: Raven before it gets insane, can you say something about your new listserv?

Paul^: What is a sadist to do with a sub who isn't masochistic ... my sub is onto D/s only and not SM.

Raven^: new listserv...

Raven^: well it's an email discussion list called Sadomasochism, it is open to people who are interested in the life style and leans towards the heavier players.

Raven^: to join the list you can visit http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/sm or email me privately.

MaccDom: A very good discussion tonight, Bob and Raven.

SirBob: thanks

cali{Cro}: what is a masochist to do with a non sadist Dom, for that matter?

jamgirl: I don't think it matters if you're a masochist or sadist..if your desire is to please,,then you will whatever it takes

Raven^: Thank you MaccDom

Raven^: people derive pleasure from different things

Bradny: Sir Bob have you ever not given her pain because you felt she was bad on purpose and wanted to deny her ..her "pleasure "

MastrMars: Find the right person who compliments they're own D/s kink, I believe would be the answer to those questions

Mel-BBL: Paul, you have more than one sub perhaps...do more D/s related things with one, masochistic with the other

Raven^: there are women that enjoy serving because they know it pleases their partners

Raven^: it is very important to be compatible

Raven^: just like with every other relationship, wether power exchange or not, if you don't match it wont work

Raven^: think a minute

Paul^: I can only handle one sub at a time ... I'm happy with my pet

Raven^: power exchange relationships are extremely difficult to make successful

Raven^: you have two very selfish individuals

Raven^: trying to satisfy their own needs

Raven^: this alone puts a huge strain on a relationship

Raven^: huge pressure

Raven^: there is one difference in power exchange relationships and nilla relationships

Raven^: compromise will work in a nilla relationship, it wont in a power exchange.

Paul^: I will agree with the pressure aspect of D/s. This is just another level to an already complicated situation

Mel-BBL: I agree with Raven

Bradny: do you attend private parties or is most of your play public ?

MaccDom: Well put, Raven.

Raven^: we attend every party there is Bradny

jamgirl: I don't know..sometimes if you beg just right and bat your eyelashes...

Raven^: we are regular party slutts.

Bradny: :)

Paul^: I find public play isn't intimate enought for our brand of D/s, but we do both

Bradny: i have done both..enjoy them almost equal

Raven^: I play publically and at home...at friends house, in our dungeon, gosh everywhere

Raven^: intimicy is achieved with the right play partner

Mel-BBL: you haven't played at my place yet

Raven^: the surroundings do not matter.

Bradny: ps kewl scene last night raven :)

Mel-BBL marks her calendar for Raven

Raven^: you haven't invited me Mel

MastrMars heads towards the door and wishes to thanks SirBob and Raven for sharing their time and life with channel

Raven^ grins

Raven^: take care MM

sayuri chuckles

Mel-BBL: yeah well, I don't think my landlord wants to hear the screaming

Raven^: actually the cool scene was the suspension... but thank you I guess my scene was also nice...

Bradny: are you guys tes memembers ?

jamgirl: I too must leave, many thanks for your sharing tonight

Raven^: yes we are TES members

allya: Raven... check that book out of the library yet? ;)

Raven^ grins

sayuri: i thought you did a expert job with those needles Raven!...

Raven^: it isn't available

Raven^: but my Sifu promised to get it for me

Raven^ smiles to allya

Mel-BBL: I didn't get to see the needles, but I did hear on the grapevine that you did great

Raven^: oh thank you sayuri

Raven^ smiles to Mel

Bradny: yea i thought it was an excellent job also

Mel-BBL: <--was a little tied up at the time

Raven^: I would say...

Raven^: Bob said that you looked cute from where he looked Mel!

Mel-BBL: lol

Bradny: yea the suspension scene was AWESOME

Mel-BBL: he got good views

Raven^: well Mel I admired the view myself

Raven^: not to shabby you wench....

Mel-BBL: lol

sayuri chuckles

Mel-BBL: no comment

Mel-BBL: I'm lucky I can type

sayuri: i think she looked like the perfect barbie doll upside down LOL

TM`sKttN: SirBob and Raven, thank you so much for being so open :)

Raven^: our pleasure KttN

^jams: Bob, this weekend, i was told the viewpoint that a Master/slave relationship is detrimental to both parties, of course I disagreed with it..but did not have good philosphy to exchange on the subject...can you give your opinion?

SirBob: a power exchange relationship is very demanding

SirBob: you have 2 people who are looking to achive somthing that may or may not be

^jams listens to SirBob intently

SirBob: the same goal

SirBob: it take much hard work

SirBob: on both parts

Raven^: I feel that a power exchange relationship can only be detrimental when it isn't consensual

Bradny: i agree raven

cali{Cro} nods at Raven's words

SirBob: a nilla relationship does not have the same demands of the parties

^jams: but can one take more power/energy than the other?? thus making it a damaging relationship?

Raven^: it is detrimental when it is abusive...

Bradny: yes

Raven^: absolutely that is where communication comes in

Raven^: you can't communicate you have nothing

SirBob: and there has to be give and take on both parts

Mel-BBL: I believe it is a give and take, some can be damaging, but I believe if you communicate and are with someone compatible with you, it is in no way damaging

Bradny: a lot of vanilla folks are oblivious that sm is about consent

allya: SirBob, Raven... Thank You both for sharing your life and love with us. i have enjoyed your new list Raven and look forward to learning more. Good night everyone!

Raven^: thank you allya

SirBob: good night allya

Raven^: and I will respond to your post

Raven^ smiles

Bradny: bye allya

Raven^: tomorrow

TM`sKttN: goodnight allya :)

allya: =)

^jams: thank you SirBob and Raven

Paul^: Thanks

Raven^ pokes her Master in the ribs

Raven^ then points to Viking

Raven^: look what the wind blew in

AFKViking: rofl..

AFKViking: hiya

laciannGW: thank you SirBob and Raven for the discussion:)

Mel-BBL: lol

AFKViking: amazing what comes in when you leave a window open

sassy-IP: well, i wondered when Viking would show up

Bradny: hey vike SUPER KEWL SCENE LAST NIGHT

Raven^: hehehe

Mel-BBL: hehe, we were at dinner

AFKViking: thanks Brad

AFKViking: that was 1 month in design and planning

Raven^ goes over to Viking and grins evily

Bradny: well it with well planed and thensome :)

AFKViking: hiya hot stuff :)

Raven^: thanks for the needles you have created a MONSHTER!

AFKViking: lol.. I tend to rub off on people Raven :)

Raven^: so it seems

AFKViking: thankyou Brad

Raven^: hehehe

Bradny: that was one of the 2 oe 3 best scenes i have ever seen

cherish: thank you SirBob and Raven, goodnight

Bradny: and i have seen very many

AFKViking: well.. Brad.. all I can say to that is: Wait till next time :)

SirBob: good night cherish

sayuri smiles

Raven^: as I told Melanie, it's moments like this that make me appreciate my weight.

sayuri: LOL Raven

AFKViking: rofl Raven... All more weight means is..Id have to use MORE hooks

Bradny: very funny LOL

cali{Cro}: LOL Raven

sayuri: <---is thinking about gaining weight too LOLOL

sayuri: j/k

SirBob: Viking isnt that roap capable of holding up to 500lbs

SirBob: rope

Raven^: hey now I don't weight 500 lbs

Raven^: stop

Laz: Hello all

AFKViking: 500 lbs was minimum tensile strength..

Bradny: hi laz

AFKViking: and that was times 2.. so it was more like 1000 lbs

SirBob: are you busy next weekend

AFKViking: in rope less than 1/4 inch in diamter

Laz: Hi Bradny

Raven^: jesus christ

AFKViking: diameter even

SirBob: and can i borrow those cuffs

Raven^: whatever happen to the darn coffin

AFKViking: lots of room for you Raven..LOTS

Mel-BBL: so, like we could do a double hooking <eg>

AFKViking: which cuffs?..the ankle ones?

Mel-BBL: Raven, it's at Brent's place

Bradny: vik how much was the hair bondage supporting ?

SirBob: the ankle ones

AFKViking: the hair bondage was supporting only the weight of her head..

Raven^: okay Mel I guess I have no say...Brent's place it is

Raven^ sighs

AFKViking: when I get them back.. I am having fur added to the liner

Mel-BBL: it's a nice coffin

Bradny: vik give us a hint on next one :)

Raven^ goes on a total starvation diet

sayuri: coffin???

AFKViking: will do.. design for the next scene begins on Monday...

AFKViking: :)

Mel-BBL: yeah sayuri, box....coffin...its cool

MaccDom: btw If you are using rope, use only that which is Universal Alpine Society approved. One of which, from Norway, is called "Viling Gold"!

sayuri: what's it for??

MaccDom: sp "Viking Gold"

AFKViking: yeah.. its a nice coffin.. completely air tight.. I was in for 17 minutes before I started to cramp up..

Raven^: sayuri a coffin is to place people in the ground when they die

AFKViking: it was too small for me

SirBob: I have some business to take care off

AFKViking: goodnight Bob

AFKViking: LOL

sayuri: no rain....but lots of lightening....Tornado warnings YIKES

Raven^ sighs

AFKViking: bye Raven

Paul^: Bye all

AFKViking: LOL

Mel-BBL: Bob*******

Mel-BBL: night

Raven^: time for my welting

Mel-BBL: <----goin to rest

AFKViking: miss UNLUCKY one

Raven^: thanks for h aving us

Mel-BBL: lol bye everyone

sayuri: bye SirBob Sir......bye Raven!!! :)

Raven^: Mel feel better

AFKViking: goodnight everyone.

sayuri: *hugs to you both*

Closed session here.