One Dominant's Journey
Speaker Mindful1
May 11,1997


<ldywhispr> thank you Kree Sir, welcome everyone and thank you for coming tonight, our speaker tonight is Mindfu1, his dicussion topic is One Dominants Journey, and will be in two parts so you will have an opportunity for comments and questions in the middle..... again.. Welcome Mindful1, the floor is yours

<MindFul1> Thank you all for coming!

<MindFul1> I've talked with many of you, and I'm so glad you're here. :)

<MindFul1> I will 'play' my presentation in two parts

<MindFul1> the first will take about 14 minutes, the second about 6 minutes. there will be questions after each part

<MindFul1> here we go....

<MindFul1> Thank you all very much for coming.

<MindFul1> I want to preface this by saying that this is a highly personal perspective. I have no pretense that my views are any sort of definition of dominance/submission. I will simply present the personal account of my intellectual and spiritual journey that led to an honest awareness and acceptance of my dominant nature, and to my vision of a loving D/s relationship.

<MindFul1> In part 2, I will discuss the issues of punishment and communication.

<MindFul1> Because I am a heterosexual male dominant, I can personally only talk about male dominance/female submissiveness. However, I think the issues of self-awareness, honesty, and self-acceptance are important to all of us involved in bdsm. Hopefully you will take something of value from this back into your own life.

<MindFul1> I first wrote down these ideas in a post to a listserv. (I post under the name Ed Nowak.) Someone asked the questions, "Where do you think your need to dominate comes from? And further, what do you get out of it?" These questions prompted me to take a new look look at who I am.

<MindFul1> I'm 45 years old, and I've always been a learning, inquisitive, thinking type. The current phase of my intellectual/spiritual/self-awareness journey started about six to eight years ago, when I started asking myself anew certain basic questions such as:

<MindFul1> Who am I? What is my nature?

<MindFul1> What is my role in the universe? What *is* the universe?

<MindFul1> What is important to me? What is my ideal?

<MindFul1> How can I know these things with certainty?

<MindFul1> These questions are, of course, of a philosophical nature, and in the process I've become a student of philosophy. I've found that it is one's *philosophy*, i.e., one's underlying views of life and existence,regardless of how well or poorly defined, whether conscious or unconscious, that drive one's actions. Indeed, philosphy moves societies and changes history. Some philosophies have resulted in pain, suffering, killing, and subjugation of humans, while others have unleashed the power and glory of man, allowed him to shape the earth to his needs and reach for the stars.

<MindFul1> One of my first very strong realizations was that men (i.e., human beings--this is not about gender) are first and foremost individual rational beings. A corollary realization was that there *is* an observable objective reality (don't laugh, there are many who disagree). I am able to know that *my* individual ideas and realizations have value and that I can test every one of them against the touchstone of reality. I realized that rational man ultimately and best flourishes, creates, produces, advances humanity, loves as an individual. Thus the moral ethic is one of egoism, i.e. enlightened self-interest, the personal advancement of one's rationally held values. Man will often join groups to achieve his objectives. However the ethics of altruism and self-sacrifice to the collective, the common good, or a higher power are inherently evil and destructive. Once man sacrifices himself, he no longer has value to offer anyone else.

<MindFul1> Lest you think this is getting terribly off the topic, it is not, since this is my personal perspective on my own jouney to know 'who is the Dom', i.e., me. The previous discussion serves as the context for my own investigation of my nature. In that context, it is only my observation, definition, and acceptance of my nature tha t is of value. I use other people's ideas to refine and hone my own thinking, but anyone else's ideas or judgments about *my* nature are ultimately irrelevant, as they lack any power for me. As to the 'why' or the 'how' or the cause of my nature, it matters not a whit to me. What is important is that I see it with crystal clarity and total honesty. Whether my nature is the result of some ancient neanderthal genetic programming or some deep evolution-driven urge is totally irrelevant, though perhaps somewhat interesting, in the context of the life of a rational man.

<MindFul1> Parenthetically, another philosophical truth is that reason is man's means of survival, and it is man's defining characteristic. Indeed all knowledge has been gained only through the use of the senses (perception of reality) and the application of reason. I am committed to reality and reason, and I thus have a hard touchstone for every idea; consequently certainty is available to me. A corollary truth is that I rationally define my own ideals and values, and my emotions are an effect of my values. So in looking at my nature, of course I look at my inner feelings or urges, but only validate them by looking at the outward actions. I know now that I have been dominant from an early age. As a boy on the farm, Dad would give me chores or tasks. I would find myself in the pasture trying to mend a fence, or in a field trying to keep a piece of machinery working, and I would have to improvise to get the job done. Before long, I found that I learned to have a vision of how I wanted it done and how it would get done, and that I had the power to make it happen.

<MindFul1>On the related issue of the physical act of control, I became keenly aware in my teenage years of the strength of my body, of its movement, of its capacity for grace, precision, and coordination.
Although today I am sure that I have less "technical" experience than some other Doms, at the same time, I have no doubt of my ability to physically control, to inflict pain for a purpose. On the farm, I would often have to use physical force or pain to induce compliance with farm animals like cows or hogs. I was effective at it, I used the force necessary to accomplish the purpose, and I never damaged an animal. I remember once driving a young stubborn cow first to her knees and then all the way to the ground, bellowing, with my elbow driving hard into her ribs. She was never a problem after that.

<MindFul1> When I began having sex with girls (at the ripe age of 18), I found that I enjoyed exerting my power, being in control physically, and I could do it pretty well. Even though I enjoyed my masculinity, I had conflicts about it. I was raised in a strongly religious family environment and so got a healthy dose of the religious ethic of self-sacrifice.

<MindFul1> I went to college during the beginnings of the feminist movement, considered myself a feminist at one point, and actually bought the idea that masculinity had done much to fuck things up in the world and in relationships. Despite the conflicting ideas, when I fucked it was always with energy and passion. Though I enjoyed physical control during the physical act, I sublimated my desire to exert control beyond that. It was during this period that I realized I enjoyed being with strong, intelligent, sexy women. Trysts with 'I.Q. challenged' women (how's that for political correctness) left me feeling empty.

<MindFul1> During a trip with the woman who would become my first wife, she agreed to be blind folded during sex and the very idea touched something deep, though I was not ready to really explore it. Thereafter we occasionally engaged in what I might now call D/s sexual activities, though I was unable or unwilling to fully explore this part of my nature. After our divorce, I was in a long term relationship with a woman who, I think, discovered some of her submissive tendencies with me. It was during this time that I was beginning to wean myself from religion and feminism.

<MindFul1> Physical control during sex became more overt, more demanding. At the same time, I was gaining a better appreciation for the sensuousness of women and sex. I was later involved with a woman who was very intelligent, very accomplished, and very sexual. I think it was with her that I learned that it was actually okay to be very demanding in sex, to take my pleasure with force. For the first time, I think, I truly experienced a woman who took great pleasure in giving pleasure. Or perhaps it was the first time that I was able to honestly accept it. We engaged in light bondage, spanking, and a great deal of anal sex. I always considered anal sex a very, very dominant/submissive type of activity, and she taught me that it could be joyous, healthy, and uplifting; that there was nothing wrong with me taking her body for my pleasure, in the way that I wanted it. When I did, she received great sexual and emotional satisfaction.

<MindFul1> Another piece of deprogramming.

<MindFul1> There were times with her that I experienced my manhood in a way that I never had before, and it was simply exquisite. But I still was unwilling to fully explore my nature in terms of D/s. To me, it still seemed 'situational' to 'this' woman, or perhaps that was my excuse for not fully facing my own nature.

<MindFul1> Before I married my second wife, we discussed some issues of power and control, though I still didn't want to think of it in terms of D/s. I even raised the idea of using the obsolete phrase 'and obey' in our vanilla marriage vows. And we enjoyed some D/s sexual activities.

<MindFul1> It seems almost ironic to me now, but it was issues of trust, power, and control that ultimately doomed our marriage. (Someone might argue, however, that if I had been truly willing to fully accept my nature at the time and to truly be and act like the dominant that I am, then we both might have gotten what we really wanted. I can't refute that.) It was during this marriage that the current phase of my journey, to which I alluded at the beginning, began.

<MindFul1> In the few years since she and I parted, the various aspects of my journey have come together with great power. The experiences I've related serve both to reveal my nature and to validate my realizations about it. In the context of my philosophical journey, I have honesty, clarity, and certainty about it. To borrow a phrase, I am who I am 'without pretense and without apology.'

<MindFul1> I have engaged with others (such as some of you here tonight) on the topic of D/s. I have come to learn more about the minds of strong, intelligent women who fully embrace their submissiveness and their womanhood' without pretense and without apology.' I have had a couple of overt (as opposed to covert?) D/s relationships. I have continued to question and refine who I say I am.

<MindFul1> Consequently I am quite, quite clear about my values, my ideals, how I want to live my life,the kind of woman I seek as a lifemate in a loving D/s relationship. I am possessed of a calm assurance, a confidence, and a patience that I've never before experienced.

<MindFul1> I've thoroughly worked through the issue of dropping any guilt or hesitancy I might have about simply "taking", about being worthy of it.

<MindFul1> I AM worthy of it.

<MindFul1> And now I see its real purpose and value in a strong, loving D/s relationship.

<MindFul1> Unless I take her TOTALLY, take her how I want her, take her when I want her, physically discipline her to retake control, unless I am willing to do these fully, then I deny her the appreciation of my tender caress and kind action. I deny her the full appreciation and enjoyment of her womanhood and my manhood. And I deny myself.

<MindFul1> The other part of accepting my dominant nature is accepting the responsibilities of being a true dominant.

<MindFul1> I would widen it to include "the responsibilities of being a true man".

<MindFul1> And I admit to some fear in this area.

<MindFul1> I do not fear that I might not BE the man/Dom that I say I am.

<MindFul1> I AM most definitely that man/Dom.

<MindFul1> I sometimes fear that I might not BEHAVE according to my own standards, might not behave as the man/Dom I say that I am. For me this is a universal context, encompassing both my role as a man in the world, and my role as a Dom in a D/s relationship. And since I am clear about my values, I seek in my partner a reflection of those values. That means that 1) I will choose a strong, self-aware, intelligent partner of quality, and 2) that I would in no way seek to degrade her or break her spirit. If I were to do that, I would be devaluing and denigrating both her and me.

<MindFul1> I also accept the responsibilities for defining and protecting and nurturing our D/s relationship. (Of course she has responsibilities in this area, as well.) I clearly see the difference between a relationship where the couple enjoys fantasy role-playing and pleasant D/s sex, and a relationship with real boundaries and consequences in the physical world. It is the latter, of course, that allows the intensity, the true power exchange, the genuine ecstasy that is available. It is necessary to determine the essential rules going in. In my view, this is entirely consistent with the rules of successful human endeavor in nearly any field.

<MindFul1> Finally, "what do I get out of it?"

<MindFul1> In dominance I am in touch with a part of my manhood that is otherwise unavailable to me. I view it as my own surrender to my ideal man. It is integral to the advancement of my values, to my personal pursuit of happiness and satisfaction, which I consider to be my highest moral purpose. In it, there is a satisfaction available on mental, emotional, and physical levels.

<MindFul1> For a better idea of these, I invite you to read a piece of erotica I wrote, which is based on real experience. It is somewhat tame in terms of bdsm, but illustrates my experience of the texture of dominance/submission in the context of an erotic encounter in a new relationship.

<MindFul1> Feel free to request it by email to: EdNowak@sprynet.com.

<MindFul1> Also feel free to email any other comments you have.

<MindFul1> .

<MindFul1> To close this part 1,

<MindFul1> I reiterate that this is one man's personal perspective, the story of his realization and acceptance of his dominant nature.

<MindFul1> It is not meant as a 'D/s bible' or anything else of that sort.

<MindFul1> I invite you to take whatever is of value to you.

<MindFul1> .

<MindFul1> <end of part 1>

<MindFul1> .

<flower^> QUEUE is Open

Action: ldywhispr smiles

Action: subkitten claps

Action: snugs wipes her brow

<Ananda111> *applause*

Action: jupiterJ applaudes

Action: SirJaz nods to MindFul1

Action: Kree We would like to remind all that the idea of discussions is for an exchange of ideas and learning. It is not a time for flaming or arguing over a point, but rather one of discussing. We ask all to respect the opinions of others.

Action: ladykitt applaudes

<scribex> Scribex says Hmmmmnnnn.....

Action: MindFul1 thanks you all :) we have more!

Action: Kree As usual there will be a queue for questions and comments. If you have a question, type ?, for a comment type !. Thanks for coming and enjoy! As you ask your questions, Please type them in advance to save time

<flower^> Queue Ananda111

<Ananda111> Can you elaborate on what you mean by surrendering to your ideal man in dominance?

<MindFul1> how long do you have, Ananda?

<Ananda111> *laugh*

<MindFul1> btw, when you are through with your question...I would appreciate you indicating with "ga" for "go ahead"

<MindFul1> well, my ideal is just that it is something I strive to be true to and the 'surrender' part is simply my exprression of the emotion of really being that ideal

<MindFul1> It is a dropping away, in that instant, all pretense, all hesitation.

<MindFul1> does that make sense?

<Ananda111> it makes sense...but I'm not sure I understand exactly which characteristics you are striving for?

<MindFul1> I'll complete ananda's question first, then subme's

<MindFul1> well, it would take too long to go into here fully, ananda

<MindFul1> but they include characteristics of strength, clarity, complete self-confidence, absolute willingness to take control....dropping of any guilt whatsoever about controlling her, taking her

<Ananda111> okay...:)

<MindFul1> this is in the context of the relationship of course

<MindFul1> ga

<flower^> ga subme-m

<subme-m> thank u

<subme-m> my question is if a man feels submissive then he is not a man.

<MindFul1> I can only talk from a personal perspective

<MindFul1> I simply can't comment on a submissive man's nature. It is foreign to me.

<MindFul1> ga

<subme-m> ok

<flower^> ga DCS^kitN

<DCS^kitN> I felt Your comment...'that there was nothing wrong with me taking her body for my pleasure' is very insightful, and again is reflected in your comments about a loving D/s relationship, rather than just a 'play' relationship. i am just curious to know if You felt there was one particular moment or situation where You first felt that You were a 'Dom' as opposed to just a Top? or if You always felt that You have been a Dom?

<MindFul1> That's hard to say, kitN

<MindFul1> I can't point to an 'epiphany', so to speak

<MindFul1> even in the first overt D/s relationship...I hadn't arrived at my current realization in full

<MindFul1> but I will say this.... I've never thought of my nature as one of 'top'

<DCS^kitN> so for You..it's been more of a gradual evolution?

<DCS^kitN> thanks Mindful1....i really enjoyed the discourse so far..

<MindFul1> it's always in terms of being in control of her in various ways. To me, 'top' implies a sexual situation

<MindFul1> yes, I would say a gradual evolution

<MindFul1> ga

<flower^> ga SirSirpen

<SirSirpen> 1. Do you find it constructive to discuss with your submissive what she wants from the relationship. 2. Altruism, do you feel you function for the commonality of the relationship or only for your own gradification thus letting your submissive find her own joy in yours.

<MindFul1> 1. Absolutely, I consider it imperative to discuss with her what she wants in the relationship

<MindFul1> I couln't imagine not doing that.

<MindFul1> 2. I don't want to get bogged down in a discussion of altruism....

<MindFul1> but two people in a loving relationship, I'm absolutely certain, act out of selfish motives...

<MindFul1> consider this: you've been married ten years...you come home one day...your partner says that he/she didn't really love you...didn't really get anything out of the relationship that he/she only did it to serve you

Action: snugs can't IMAGINE that happening

<MindFul1> that would be hell, in my view

<MindFul1> If anyone wants to discuss the topic of altruism further, please email me. ga

Action: lightn^L^ can imagine it ,, been threw

<Susu8865> try 26 years

<SirSirpen> I find that to do something for the good of others to be source of pleasure - and ok, will let it drop

<MindFul1> ga

<flower^> ga Kree

<Kree> subme-m I am not a submissive male, but I know some submissive males that are real life and they are very strong individuals in both intellect and physical being. In the context of IRC they are quite strong because for some reason there are those that look down on them because they are submissive, thus making their choice to be submissive an even harder one than perhaps a female might encounter because of outdated stereotypical attitudes of gender.

<MindFul1> I'll let Kree's comment stand. ga

<Kree> If there are no more questions or comments we will move to the second part of the presentation

<MindFul1> are we ready for part 2?

<Kree> Go ahead Mindful

<MindFul1> okay, here we go on the issues of punishment and communication

<MindFul1> ON THE ISSUE OF PUNISHMENT

<MindFul1> I know that many use the term 'punishment' to refer to certain forms of erotic play. I would call this 'erotic pain' or 'play punishment'. I enjoy this myself, but in my vision of a loving committed D/s relationship, the boldness to employ physical punishment is imperative.

<MindFul1> This punishment is real, not play. That is, it is *not* enjoyable to the sub. It presumes, of course, that rules, parameters, and expectations have been thoroughly discussed and agreed to. Its context is the commitment by both to the relationship itself.

<MindFul1> First, the punishment must be physical, in my opinion.

<MindFul1> I reject the idea of using any form of emotional withdrawal as punishment. I know it well, I admit, because I have practiced it during certain times of my life. I think it is a sign of emotional immaturity, of a lack of self-awareness, of a lack of commitment to oneself and one's partner. It accomplishes nothing. Indeed, it creates confusion and mess.

<MindFul1> It is absurd, in my opinion, to turn a vanilla weakness into a Dom strength.

<MindFul1> Second, I think that the punishment must be clearly defined and delimited.

<MindFul1> That is, both partners must be very clear about the behaviors that precipitated a specific punishment. And it should have a definite finish.

<MindFul1> I think the period right after a punishment is crucial. The sub, I think, is at her most vulnerable then, and she must be 'brought back' with love, tenderness, and strength. It is a period during which the bond is renewed and strengthened. She has experienced his control and his power in a very direct way. I have exercised my control and demonstrated my commitment to the relationship and to my ideal in a way that is unmistakeable. This period offers both Dom and sub the potential to experience incredible fulfillment.

<MindFul1> One of the most challenging aspects of pun ishment, for me, is my duty to know the rules I want, and then the discipline and responsibility to enforce the agreed on rules. While this is challenging, I also know that this is indeed what I want in my life. It is within this sort of structure that my ideal man flourishes, that my partner provides me with the full measure of her womanhood.

<MindFul1> Also, in my own experience, and also in talking with subs, there is a tendency for a sub, when she has disappointed her Dom, to experience strong guilt. Punishment relieves her of those guilty feelings, and serves to clear the air, to keep the relationship pure.

<MindFul1> Punishment also has great benefits for me as a Dom. I think back to my last marriage, where when a conflict arose, I would make a strong effort to resolve it, and to resolve it NOW. Almost invariably, however, she would resurrect old issues in the middle of new ones, which in turn became fodder for future conflicts. It was so incredibly frustrating and it became my own hell, a bottomless pit.

<MindFul1> The necessity to clear the slate immediately, in the physical world, with physical pain, is obvious. At least to me.

<MindFul1> ON THE ISSUE OF COMMUNICATION

<MindFul1> Everyone agrees that communication is crucial in any relationship. Here is a specific method to make sure that it is interwoven very deeply in a loving D/s relationship.

<MindFul1> Every day my sub will come to me for a special period of communication. While I am sitting on the couch or in a chair, she straddles my lap and sits facing me with her arms around my neck. Her head is beside mine so that can whisper in my ear if she wants to, and doesn't have to look in my eyes if she doesn't want to. I can touch her, stroke her, hug her to give her encouragement and help her feel safe.

<MindFul1> As we have agreed, she must tell me her thoughts, her concerns, her fears, her feelings, her joys, anything at all, and must not hide anything. She is free to say anything, and there is never a punishment for the content of her words. Also as we have agreed, she will be punished if she refuses to share her thoughts.

<MindFul1> (She must still share them anyway after the punishment.)

<MindFul1> She will also be punished if she speaks disrespectfully, but again, never for the content of what she says during this special period.

<MindFul1> This relatively simple act serves many purposes. It reminds her of her submissiveness and her love and her commitment to us. There is the tension of possible punishment if she does not do what was agreed to. It clears the air each day so there is no possibility of anything building up inside, no possibility of unexpressed frustration, anger, or any other negative emotion exploding with possibly dire consequences to the relationship.

<MindFul1> It is a daily reminder to me of my responsibility to listen to my loving sub, of my responsibility to maintain a clear, honest, and open environment for our love to grow and flourish.

<MindFul1> Because I am now immediately aware of any potential problems or issues that may arise between us, I can and must act quickly to resolve them. Very often they will be resolved right then, during our special period.

<MindFul1> But I cannot hide behind not knowing.

<MindFul1> It insures, through all the little ups and downs and the daily problems that arise, that our intimacy will continue to deepen and strengthen. All from the simple act of sitting down and talking in a special way.

<MindFul1> <end of part 2>

<MindFul1> .

<MindFul1> ga

<flower^> QUEUE is Open Please use ? for question or ! for comment

<flower^> ga Ananda111

<Ananda111> Another clarification, please...I didn't follow what you meant regarding turning

<Ananda111> "a vanilla weakness into a Dom strength"?

<MindFul1> well, I'm speaking from my personal experience...I've personally done emotional withdrawal...sometimes it's called passive-aggressive behavior

<MindFul1> I think it happens a lot in ordinary relationships

<MindFul1> and I consider it a weakness

<MindFul1> at the same time, I've heard some Doms talk about using a similar tactic as punishment in a D/s relationship

<MindFul1> so that's what I meant about it being strange, at least to me, to call a vanilla weakness a Dom strength.

<MindFul1> ga

<Ananda111> but how is that a strength?

<Ananda111> OOOHHHHH....I see, thanks! ga

<MindFul1> a strength only in the sense that it is being used....as a deliberate act of punishment, as so-called tool of punishment, as a so-called tool of strength in a D/s relationship

<flower^> ga subme-m

<subme-m> how do u know she is hiding anything

<MindFul1> good questin

<subme-m> that is during your sit down sessions

<MindFul1> ultimately it will be up to me to know that...from my perspective, at my age, I believe I would know it

<MindFul1> I give my soul and I expect her to give hers

<MindFul1> and I think that any hiding will be immediately apparent....if not in the communicatin, then in the quality of the relationship itself.

<MindFul1> haven't you ever just asked "Something's wrong. What is it?"

<MindFul1> It's that kind of knowing. ga

<flower^> ga slavetoy

<slavetoy> I am a little confussed...you stated earlier that you seek a strong intellectual, confidant woman (Paraphrasing) please correct me if i am incorrect...But if you want a strong woman...and you said you don't want to "Break her Spirit" what is your gain in her submission? that she is preparred to offer and give it to you freely...? i hink that is my Question

<MindFul1> for a strong woman, the gift is incredibly special, in my view

<MindFul1> first, it takes courage for her to fully accept her nature and self-acceptance along with the determination to pursue her happiness also takes strength, imo

<MindFul1> and in that context, our rational acceptance of our relationship is incredibly fulfilling to each of us.

<MindFul1> ga

<slavetoy> i know i need to reread what you said but thank you for responding :) ga

<MindFul1> ladykitt's question, now

<ladykitt> How can you be sure you won't fall into those old habit patterns in a D/s relationship? Or listen to the sub but now really hear her...which so often happens in a relationship?

<MindFul1> you mean *not* really hear her?

<ladykitt> yes :)

<MindFul1> the way I make sure I don't slip into old patterns is to strive to be true to the ideal man, which I discussed and to be truthful, my own personal journey has simply eradicated many of those old patterns whenever old patterns rear their ugly heads...

<MindFul1> I am able to recognize them immediately...and head them off, because to act them out doesn't serve my values or my purpose

<MindFul1> hope that answers it. ga

<flower^> QUEUE lil`bit snugs

<ladykitt> thankyou MindFul Sir

<flower^> ga lil`bit

<lil`bit`> subme-m In answer to your question--when a relationship is built on the strength of communication--trust and love that is crucial to this kind of relationship... the bond between you makes it about impossible to hide your feelings. You can almost read each other like an open book.. and when thoughts are hidden.. the guilt kinda will override your ability to hide anything

<MindFul1> well stated lil`bit`

<subme-m> i am not sure about that

<MindFul1> I agree

<MindFul1> ga

<subme-m> unless you read minds

<lil`bit`> I know.. I have lived it

<lil`bit`> ga

<subme-m> also - back to manhood

<subme-m> "ideal man"

<MindFul1> I agree with lil`bit`. In a healthy intimate relationship, things don't stay hidden for long

<MindFul1> ga

<flower^> ga snugs

<snugs> On the topic of punishment (& communication 2, I guess!): I think a lot of us have a challenge when it comes to releasing the guilt once the punishment has been given. I tend to keep saying "I'm sorry." As a Dom, how do you reassure and help your submissive come to the point where SHE can put that "wrong done" behind her completely and believe that you TRULY do forgive her?????

<MindFul1> I don't know that there's only one answer to that, snugs

<MindFul1> as I said, I think the period right after the punishment ends is crucial...as to the specifics of how....I think that I, as the Dom, have to tune into her...before the 'period after' is over, I *must* make sure that guilt is released...that she *know* I forgive her, that I love her more deeply than ever

<MindFul1> so, the final answer, I think, is that's it's up to me to make sure that happens, whatever it takes.

<flower^> ga MastrMars

<MastrMars> snugs, by dealing with things as they happen

<MastrMars> helps prevent them from growing and allows a DOM to let go and not get attached to the wrong that was done

<MastrMars> that is why, strict enforcement of the rules and agreed to limtis in crictical]

<MindFul1> I certainly agree, MastrMars

<MindFul1> anything else?

<snugs> I think in the past (am getting better tho!) that I tend to equate each punishment with less love.....and that's not the case, as I'm coming to see..... :)

<MastrMars> nope, not from me

<MindFul1> snugs, I believe it is up to me to absolutely make sure that each punishment...is an opportunity to strengthen and deepen the relationship.

<flower^> QUEUE closed

<MindFul1> If it were to harm it in any way, I would have to take a very serious look at our dynamic, at the ffoundatin of our relationship. And then talk with her about it so that our commitment remains strong.

<MindFul1> ga

<flower^> I think we're ready for Open Forum now, MindFul, Sir

<MindFul1> that's fine

<ldywhispr> this concludes the formal part of our discussion tonight..again please feel free to stay as long as you like and discuss.......thank you again Mindful1 for a most enlightening discussion

<MindFul1> I thank you all again, and hope I've brought something of value to each of you.

Action: ldywhispr smiles

<MindFul1> thank you, ldywhisper :)

<slavetoy> thank you Mindful1

<ladykitt> Thank you Sir :)

<ldywhispr> Mindful1 Sir...would you please give your email address again for those who may have come in late

Action: MastrMars thanks Mindful1 for his time and thoughts

<MindFul1> okay.

Action: ldywhispr smiles......thanks Sir

<MindFul1> my email address: EdNowak@sprynet.com

Action: snugs is going to have a full plate tonight, digesting all of this....wonderful, just what the doctor ordered!

Action: MindFul1 smiles at snugs

<Arturo-> Excellent talk mindful

<MindFul1> thank you Arturo!

<Arturo-> outstanding.... wish i could have made part 1

Action: rissaM4U applauds...wonderful MindFul1..thank you so much

<arabella> me too :)

<flower^> Arturo, Sir.....it's logged for anyone who wants it

<MindFul1> I'd be happy to send the log, Arturo. would you send me an email to remind me?

<Arturo-> sasha sends her regrets... out with the family for mothers day

<^kira> wonderful discussion! :)

<MindFul1> I was wondering about sasha, Arturo. Give her my regards :)

<flower^> Excellent, Mindful, Sir.....thank You!

<Arturo-> that would be great

<MindFul1> you're welcome, flower

<Arturo-> artuful@cuffs.com

<Arturo-> thanks

<kerri> Thank you Mindful, Sir...I enjoyed your discussion...

<MindFul1> and thank *you* rissa. Thanks for your encouragement

<MindFul1> you're welcome, kerri

<desire^D^> thank you Master Mindful1

<MindFul1> and 'you're welcome's' to slavetoy, arabella and kira, as well!

<MindFul1> I'm glad you came, desire

Action: rissaM4U hugs MindFul1..it was my pleasure Sir...congratulations wonderful speech tonight

Action: sssolara smiles *A wondrous and insightful listening, Mindful. Thank you..for a wealth of things to think about. It was refreshing to listen to a Dominants spiritual journey in Ds.


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